My First Kabuto (Zunari)

[Robin]

I like it a lot!

 

I love this type of kabuto...it always reminds me of the German WWI helmet with added armor plate.

 

 

Robin

[Viper6924]

Orikasa writes something interesting about the 62-ken kabuto:

”Well, it is also assumed that the 62 plate Koboshi kabuto were made as a countermeasure against the teppo, and I heard from people testing matchlocks on them that they have great buffering against bullets”.

 

So according to Orikasa, there have been tests done on Koboshi kabuto. I would really love to know more about these tests. What kind of Koboshi kabuto was used? What kind of matchlock, caliber, amount of black powder and distance to the target was in use.

 

Jan

[uwe]

Like this Jan...

 

 

[IanB]

I have on another thread published a picture of my 8 plate Yoshimichi which is of heavy plates and John Anderson also illustrates an 8 plate Yoshimich helmet. Clearly there was a demand for helmets with heavier and fewer plates. There is however a problem in that we don't know when he worked or whether the 8 plate helmets are later or earlier or indeed contemporary with his 32 and 62 plate ones. If we take his generally accepted dates as being around the 1530's / 40's this is too early to worry about bullets - so why make these helmets? If however he was really working say 20 years later they make sense.

 

One other factor is that many of the big named warriors of the period had more than one armour. I am thinking here of Ii Naomasa whose fighting armour has a zunari helmet, a hoate mask and a namban style dou. However, he also owned an armour with a suji  bachi. Honda Tadakatsu wore a toppai kabuto in action and Sakai Tadatsugu wore a 12 plate helmet, but he also owned a very nice dou-maru with an akoda nari. The fact that ko-boshi helmets and regular suji bachi were still being made is not the point. What matters is the type they wore in battle.

 

As for evidence of what effect a bullet has, I have already published images of a Nambokucho helmet of mine that has been hit by a bullet. This helmet is very heavy yet it has torn away the plate along the line of the rivets. The only reason this helmet is still around is that the dent was knocked out. If armour gets really damaged it is scrapped so you cannot expect to see much with severe battle damage.

Ian Bottomley.

[Viper6924]

Yes, I’ve seen that smashed kabuto before. If worn during battle, I wonder if the wearer survived?

It’s like the modern day race cars made to crumble in order to absorb the energy of the impact.

Did this kabuto absorb enough energy to stop the ball entering the skull? That’s the million dollar question!

Uwe, can you give us a damage Koboshi

 

Jan

[DaveT]

A school of thought. Trolls and schoolyard bullies need not apply.

What is this about?

[uwe]

Yes, I’ve seen that smashed kabuto before. If worn during battle, I wonder if the wearer survived?

It’s like the modern day race cars made to crumble in order to absorb the energy of the impact.

Did this kabuto absorb enough energy to stop the ball entering the skull? That’s the million dollar question!

Uwe, can you give us a damage Koboshi

 

Jan

 

 

Guess he survived Jan....

Sorry no koboshi. But I thought Anthony has promised something (fresh from the testing grounds of his backyard).....

[uwe]

I`m afraid......  

[IanB]

I missed Uve's post - interesting. Sadly we don't know the range at which this helmet was hit. Years ago the Royal Armouries did tests, all on 2mm mild steel at 30m range and found a 80lb draw long bow failed to pierce the sheet, a powerful crossbow (I think it was 800lb from memory)  broke the sheet but the bolt did not penetrate while a matchlock using low grade powder pierced two sheets and dented a third one.  An order of magnitude difference was the conclusion. 

 

I add an image which speaks for itself. (not a bullet but flying masonry)

Ian Bottomley

 

[DaveT]

Also for consideration, we have seen the entry of the new tosei class of Kabuto, but also some examples that are very robust with very thick plates.
I know a few of us own these super heavys.

 

 

[DaveT]

Some more examples of heavy Zunari that are bulletproof.
The red having tameshi

 

 

[Viper6924]

The red Ecchu-zubari is really thick and heavy. I’ve held it a few times, so I know.

 

Uwe, nice picture of the inside of the bachi. Looks like the wearer might have lived to fight another day.

 

Jan

[DaveT]

If you look at Uwe's muti plate the shot has gone from side to side. Not directly towards it, so it glanced off leaving a loving kiss on the surface.
I bet the owner went and traded it in for a zunari afterwards.

[javier]

Hi

 

Thank you all for sharing all your knowledge! I am glad that this post brought different discussions since each answer and question is a wonderful learning experience for a beginner like me.

 

Thank you Ian for your effort in providing a translation of the inscriptions in the Shikoro! As a history lover I am always fascinated with this kind of additional information that connect us with little pieces of history.

 

The reason why I decided to buy a Zunari Kabuto was because some time ago doing my regular internet research about Katchu, Nihonto and other Japanese antiques I learned about the history of the Ii Naomasa Kabuto in the Royal Armouries Museum

 

https://royalarmouries.org/the-ii-naomasa-kabuto/

 

I guess that several o the members of the forum are aware of this Kabuto after seen the pictures of that red Zunari I definitely wanted to buy one!

 

That red package (Kabuto+Menpo) is amazing !

 

By the way my soccer team in Buenos Aires is called the Red Devils ( Club Atletico Independiente ) so it was love at first sight with the li Naomasa Kabuto! Just kidding!

 

I also have a ressei men Menpo so I am planning to buy a Kabuto & mempo stand and spend hours watching the complete set luckily my wife Leticia is a psychologist and she understands people like me!

 

Again thank you all for your generosity in sharing your knowledge!

 

Javier

[Luc T]

 

The Akoda-nari is said to have been rejected due to its weak construction. But is there any reliable records to support this or is this a modern theory? Holding a true Muromachi Akoda-nari in your hands def support that impression, but again, can we find records that support this ”feeling”?

Again, a very interesting topic involving several fields of study.

 

Jan

There is another reason for the disappearing of the akodanari. The bow and arrow lost importance....

[Luc T]

Anthony,

 

One thing we do not see is tameshi on 62 ken kabuto (at least, I haven't seen any - tameshi vs. battle damage).

I have a Takayoshi with bullet impact. A war-production Takayoshi. Allmost no damage on the inside!