Edo Period Sword Question

[Corry]

Can someone please enlighten me. This sword is for sale as a Edo period, old family blade in WWII tanker/pilots mountings. How can one discern that this is an edo blade?  The ad says unsigned, but it looks as if some kanji characters are barely visible on the nakago. Any thoughts on a fair price? Thanks for looking!

[Corry]

[DanielGJ]

hello Durrell, it is not logical to put a fixed price on a piece and more if it is an auction, you must bid until you believe enough, tell you that in the sales section of this forum there is some at a good price and in good condition, a greeting Daniel

[Geraint]

Dear Durell.

 

Hmmm!  Well first off I think you are right, there are some kanji on the nakago but I certainly can't read them from these photos.  And there's the rub.  If these are all you have to go on then go easy.  I can't even determine the sugata from these.  Is it unokubi zukuri?  Is it a wakizashi or a tanto?  It looks as though the koshirae is all of a piece but it's nothing great.

 

As for the Edo period question, well the seller might know about Japanese swords or they might not.  Edo period is a pretty safe catch all if you have no idea and it's quite a long time period.  As this has suguha hamon then indicators such as yakidashi and boshi are of limited use.  Given the length then you might take a shot, for example if it is a sunobi tanto or ko wakizashi and if it is unokubi zukuri then then that might give you an idea about the period.

 

As it happens I would go for Shinto rather than Koto but that's purely an impression.  Value?  Well on this side of the pond you would be looking at somewhere under a thousand but it all depends on whether you want to own this one.  Bear in mind that if you do buy it you might own it for a very long time, it's not everyone's cup of tea.

 

Random ramblings, I hope some of it helps.

 

All the best.

[Corry]

Geraint, Thanks for the info! This is from the sellers description, "This is a Japanese WWll Army Kamikaze pilot or tanker's sword wakizashi in mountings.       The blade is unsigned, kanmuri-otoshi shape, Edo period made old family blade.    The blade is in old polish, shows fine scratches but no rust and in good condition." Cheers!

 

Dear Durell.

 

Hmmm!  Well first off I think you are right, there are some kanji on the nakago but I certainly can't read them from these photos.  And there's the rub.  If these are all you have to go on then go easy.  I can't even determine the sugata from these.  Is it unokubi zukuri?  Is it a wakizashi or a tanto?  It looks as though the koshirae is all of a piece but it's nothing great.

 

As for the Edo period question, well the seller might know about Japanese swords or they might not.  Edo period is a pretty safe catch all if you have no idea and it's quite a long time period.  As this has suguha hamon then indicators such as yakidashi and boshi are of limited use.  Given the length then you might take a shot, for example if it is a sunobi tanto or ko wakizashi and if it is unokubi zukuri then then that might give you an idea about the period.

 

As it happens I would go for Shinto rather than Koto but that's purely an impression.  Value?  Well on this side of the pond you would be looking at somewhere under a thousand but it all depends on whether you want to own this one.  Bear in mind that if you do buy it you might own it for a very long time, it's not everyone's cup of tea.

 

Random ramblings, I hope some of it helps.

 

All the best.

[Stephen]

Showa22 seller be my guess from photos.

MHO it is a old wakizashi put into mounts that can be called tanker ect...sales gimmick.

[Stephen]

yep...https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-WWll-Army-pilot-tankers-sword-in-mountings-family-blade/362318988165?hash=item545be50385:g:if4AAOSwqoZa-N2J

[Guest Rayhan]

Either way it is not recommended to buy unsigned Edo period swords

[vajo]

Either way it is not recommended to buy unsigned Edo period swords

 

If it is a nice and well made sword, you like it and the price fits for you, why should not buy a Edo mumei sword and passing over 200 years of Japanese sword history? 

[Guest Rayhan]

Everyone should look at quality first and I too own one mumei shinshinto sword but it is advised not to.

 

- the sword will never go past Hozon in shinsa.

 

- the investment side it will never hold value and experienced collectors will avoid buying it so you resale market pool is smaller.

 

- there is no good reason for an Edo period sword to be mumei, it begs more questions than it should including the aspect of quality.

 

- given the general amalgamation of techniques at this period in sword manufacturing in Japan the unsigned mumei blade will be a ball park pin on attribution in many cases.

 

- You should not be learning on examples of mumei Shinto swords

 

Just a few reasons but all my own opinion. I just think with the availability of signed Edo blades out there one should focus their collecting and money on better examples.

[vajo]

Rayhan there are countless mumei edo sword with hozon on the market. Or did you mean Tokubetsu Hozon?

[Guido]

Rayhan there are countless mumei edo sword with hozon on the market. Or did you mean Tokubetsu Hozon?

 

Ray said it will never go past hozon, i.e. higher than hozon, which is correct.

[Guest Rayhan]

Hi Chris

 

All I meant was it will possibly get Hozon but no more, so no TH for sure.

 

Sorry I worded it strangely before

[Brian]

The description gives it immediately away as a Showa22 listing. And then the pics confirm at as Stephen mentioned.
The quantity of swords he sells, and the number of people watching his auctions mean that his stuff always goes for market value or higher. I don't even bother looking at them anymore. Usually more than market value.
Btw, the tanker/pilot thing is a myth imho.
Odd sugata. Can't work out what it is trying to be.

[Corry]

Thanks all for a very interesting discussion. When looking at it closely, the nakago looks to have kanji characters on it, but not ledgible due to corrosion, so no way to tel who the smith was. Either way thanks again!

[vajo]

Corry the good thing is, if it was gimei now it is mumei.