huntershooter Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 See a tachi on ebay (item # 180240666482, sorry I don't know how to provide link), 33"+ nagasa. Seller is "finearts29mv". "Buy It Now" of $4500.00. Granted the photos are not the best. My question, In one photo looks to be a portion of hamon visible, nothing I can see in the following photos. Any comments?
Grey Doffin Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 The seller is Christian Chaffee. When I sold him this sword at the Chicago show last weekend it didn't have a hamon (it had been in a fire and had never been retempered). I told him about the problem when I sold it to him. He seems to have forgotten to mention it. Grey
Mark Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 I remember seeing the sword in Tampa and at Chicago, interesting at first glance but i think Grey did diligent research, asked a lot of opinons, and even had a window put in it... so i doubt it is an undiscovered treasure ----- just my opinion
Stephen Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... R40QQfviZ1
Jean Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 Thanks Stephen for the link :D :D :D Not mentioning the lack of temper due to fire
undermilkwood Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 Could a blade like this be sent away to have the edge re-hardened by a modern Tosho? It's probably wouldn't cost must for a dose of Yakiire.
Brian Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 Proof that things can and will come back to haunt you in this field. Thanks very much Grey and Mark for the background. I am sure word will travel and people can draw their own conclusions. Brian
Jacques D. Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 Hi, Could a blade like this be sent away to have the edge re-hardened by a modern Tosho? It's probably wouldn't cost must for a dose of Yakiire. Within a large week? Only Belzebuth can do it
Guest Nanshoku-Samurai Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 Shame on this seller! A blade with fire damage is as bad as it can get. Even if only a small portion of your blade has been retempered it would not paper at all. Besides this sword would have hd a problem with its Boshi and there seem to be two bad fukure in where the Hamon would have been. Again please DO NOT bid on this unless you want a metal Tsunagi. Thanks for letting us know about the real whereabpouts / background of this sword! Max
Brian Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 Within a large week? Only Belzebuth can do it Hi Jacques, I think what undermilkwood (who needs to start signing with a name ) was trying to say is that if someone bought a sword like this, is it possible to send it afterwards for yakiire. I don't think that is practical though. Sori comes through the quenching, and extra bending might cause hagire. Also, it would be expensive, and difficult to find someone who would do it. Unethical too..and you would be left with a yaki-naoshi/saiha blade that would likely still have tell-tale signs and it would never be what it claimed to be. Not very easy to do. Brian
undermilkwood Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 Sorry Brian Thanks for the low down, just wondering what our land of the rising sun miracle workers might be able to do. I guess reshaping and re-tempering a 33 centimetre blade is tall order (I don't think beelzebub has a licence from the Japanese government :D). I can see the ethical reasons for not doing this also. Thanks again! JOE!
Guest Nanshoku-Samurai Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 Also it would never paper if there are any signs of retempering. I've had a blade recently sent back to me form the polisher as it has had some retempering ppssibly backk periode. Otherwise it could have gone a Juyo token but with the retempering it is just a piece of history.
b.hennick Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 Hi: I have known Christian Chiafee for many years. He has sold lots (100+) swords over the years. He includes his phone number in his Ebay adds. He has this condition report at the bottom of the add. "This is in as found condition, as shown in the photos. There is one grain opening which appears as a dark spot on the blade. This is an ancient relic, so it is being sold as is. I want to share my thoughts on this blade to clarify and relate the condition of this blade properly. I was told by the guy I bought this from, that it does not have a temper line, which is why he was selling it. I felt I could clearly see tempering in some areas, so I purchased it. The blade had not been cleaned or oiled when I got it. I have removed the old gunk and surface accumulations. As you can see in my photos, there does appear to be a clearly defined suguha temper line with a crisp nioiguchi, in some areas, and in other photos, it is not visable. I would assume the temper line is incomplete in some areas, and exists in other areas. This is commonly found on early blades, and today, it is common practice to use polishing techniques to restore the appearance of the temper line to look like it did when it was first made. Many early blades were not properly tempered in the first place, and this may have been in a fire, or may have been polished down so that the temper line has been lost in some areas along the cutting edge. There is a lot of forgiveness for such early blades, as few exist today which retain their length and elegant sugata. This sword is in need of a fresh polish to look it's best, and any good polisher can blend in any areas of missing hamon so the sword looks great. I also want to mention that I believe the original kissaki is for the most part, intact. I mention this because of how the bohi ends at the tip. This blade just needs a good polisher to restore it. " It seems to me that as a seller he is informing the reader of the blades condition. He does tell people that he was told that there is no temper line. I see no problem with his description. It seems to me that people have tarnished his reputation without reading his full ebay add. I think that he is owed an appology by one or more people.
Guest nickn Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 the coments about the swords condition ,hamon etc, were added a day after the auction started (just click on revisions) i guess after the seller was inform ,or saw for himself if a menber, that this forum was discussing his sword .dont you think the true condition should have been reported when the auction was first listed? what if someone had bought "it buy it now" the auction states sold as seen i dont think anyone owes this seller an appoligy
Grey Doffin Posted May 9, 2008 Report Posted May 9, 2008 Correct,the disclaimer was not on the sale page when the sword was listed. What's more, I told Mr. Chaffee when he bought it that Bob Benson had put in a window and that the blade has no temper, not partial temper here and there that might be fixed by a polisher, but NO temper. You can see the edge of the window in the shinogi-ji in one of the pictures on the sale. Sorry, but I don't think I owe an apology. Grey
Guest Nanshoku-Samurai Posted May 9, 2008 Report Posted May 9, 2008 I will soon release some more information on Mr. Chaffee and his dealings ... stay tuned! Max
Stephen Posted May 9, 2008 Report Posted May 9, 2008 lets not start a witch hunt or bashing here, if someone has concerns here PM pp who have had dealings with said seller.
b.hennick Posted May 9, 2008 Report Posted May 9, 2008 Hi Guys: Let me says up front that I bought something from Christian Chaiffee at the Chicago show. In response to a question on the day of listing he wrote. Q: How tired is this blade? Are there any openings (ware). Do you think it will take a polish, or is there no hamon left? Do you guarantee its' time period (heian)? The kissaki looks broken, fixable? Thanks Mike May-07-08 A: Hi Mike, The blade has only the one area with a more noticable opening, and this is clearly shown in my photos. I have looked at my photos, and I will add a close up of the second much smaller opening tomorrow. blade is out of polish, and there is no clear decernable hamon. Most early blades have been through a lot. Many in the museums have been retempered. Keep in mind the great age of heian blades, and the fact that the few that do survive, have seen twice the history of a typical muromachi katana. I can not guarantee it was made in the heian period, only the recognized experts are qualified to make that final judgement. It is my honest opinion based on the characteristics exibited in the blade itself. The shape, length, small kissaki, fumbari, and ancient nakago, and length of the cutting edge, are all consistant with the characacteristics you would expect to find in a heian era tachi. I do leave the final judgement to the bidders. Regarding the kissaki, it's the first time I ever saw a sword with such a tiny kissaki. Take one of your own swords, and put a quarter next to the kissaki, and compare it to mine. You can clearly see how small it is. I think the kissaki retains it's original form based on where the bohi ends at the kissaki on both sides. If you have any other questions, please ask. I know this blade is an expensive investment, and I want my winning bidder happy. Thanks, Christian I added the bold around "no clear discernable hamon". What more do you want a seller to say? Lifet time summary Lifetime Summary: Positives:3541Negatives:20|Positive Feedback:99.4% IS that sooo bad?
Brian Posted May 9, 2008 Report Posted May 9, 2008 Hi folks, I don't want us to make this a seller bashing thread please. This was about the sword, and its description. That has been resolved for potential buyers, and I think that is sufficient.. if there is anything relevant to add, pm me, but I don't want this to get out of hand. thanks, Brian
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