Oldest European Swords

[vajo]

Kantei method for european swords. A very interesting article about the science on european swords. 

The oldest steel swords are from 600 - 800 after chr. The oldest roman steel swords from 400 after chr.

 

Swords from Iron are much older but they are not steel made. 

 

https://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article773365/Geheimnisse-europaeischer-Schwertschmiedekunst-enthuellt.html(german article).

 

http://www.schwertbruecken.de/ (english)

 

http://www.schwertbruecken.de/Japan/startj.htm(Japan)

 

https://www.archaeologie-online.de/artikel/2006/scotts-talisman-damastsalat-und-nanodraht/

[Jussi Ekholm]

Stefan Mäder has done awesome reasearch on this field.

[vajo]

Hello Jussi, yes i've been impressed. All these ancient swords have a hamon and a hada

.

Sax blade

 

[ROKUJURO]

......All these ancient swords have a hamon and a hada. ...

 

Chris,

 

that is not at all astonishing. Raw bloomery iron and steel have to be processed for homogenization before they can be used for tools and weapons, and this results in a form of HADA. That can be seen even in Celtic blades (ca. 800 - 45 BC).  

[vajo]

Jean i thought there was an archaeological difference between iron and steel swords?

Steel weapons are known 3000 bc. But all these spears, daggers and swords are not made for war. So the most cultures uses bronze for thier swords. The use of steel for swords came nearly similar in europe and Japan, i thought.

[IanB]

All,  Steel was until relatively recently a difficult material to make and many cultures produced composite blades in which steel formed only the cutting edge and point. In England during the Middle Ages the material for a lot of blades is best described as 'steeled' iron. The Royal Armouries have quite a few Medieval daggers of various types, many of which have triangular sectioned blades of exaggerated thickness to resist bending in use. The collection also has a Roman gladius whose blade is in amazing condition that still displays the owner's name punched into the surface. That has a reinforcing rib about 1cm long running at right angles to the blades surface at the point. Clearly the metal was considered too soft to avoid the point becoming bent over without it.

Ian Bottomley 

[ROKUJURO]

Jean i thought there was an archaeological difference between iron and steel swords?

Steel weapons are known 3000 bc. But all these spears, daggers and swords are not made for war. So most cultures used bronze for their swords. The use of steel for swords came nearly similar in europe and Japan, i thought.

Chris,

 

the difference is a metalurgical one. Steel is a malleable alloy of iron and carbon, while iron has a carbon content of <0,22% and is not hardenable. The first culture to produce and use iron are the Hittites, and they made iron as early as 1.800 B.C. Meteorite iron was indeed found to have been formed by forging in Egypt (a dagger in Tut-anch-Amun's grave, ca. 1.330 B.C.). 

 

In Europe, the Celts started the production of iron at about 800 B.C. In the beginning of the Iron Age, bronze remained in use for quite a while as it was harder and more suitable for many tasks than non-hardenable iron. Steel was a by-product in the bloomery process, and while the Celts did no know how to make it, they could identify its properties and, later in their era (La Tène), used it accordingly for the cutting edges of tools and weapons.

 

The technology spread soon, and the Romans and other ancient cultures learned from them.