New Guy With A Tanegashima

[Brownac1983]

Hello. I recently purchased an old matchlock in an auction. I frequent the CMP forums, and it was suggested there that I ask questions here. Apparently they're not very common in the US. Apologies for the pictures, they're the ones taken by the auction company. Once I have the gun in hand I'll be able to take better quality photos. 

 

I have a few questions if the experts don't mind.

 

1) I know that it's at least missing the flash pan cover (Hibuta?), barrel protector (Amaoi?), and pins (Mekugi?). I'm certain that I can fashion reproductions of the brass parts in order to have a complete, if not correct, rifle... or is that frowned upon? What about the pins, I've read that smoked bamboo is the preferred material for this. Is that just green bamboo shaved into shape and tempered over a fire?

 

2) A friend's wife, who is Japanese, translated the barrel inscription as:

 

高倉甚六作

 

高倉　　  甚六　  作

Takakura Jinroku Saku

 

"made by Jinroku Takakura"

 

Is that correct? If so, does anyone know the time period in which Jinroku Takakura worked?

 

Also, anything else that you can tell me from the photos would be greatly appreciated. I'll follow up with much better photos when I have it in hand.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

  -Drew Brown

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Drew, welcome here. You have found out quite a bit already in advance and your information is good!

 

The gun's proportions with shortish fattish swamped barrel suggest a 軍用筒 (pron. 'goon-yo-zutsu') ie a proper gun made for warfare, and apart from the missing bits, in generally good condition, but presumably you have no measurements yet. The flash pan seems to have been reworked or relined, perhaps from heavy use. Hard to see in that shot. There is a middle sight and a foresight, but... no back sight?

 

The name is interesting as I have not run across it before. The father of this line (your smith Takakura Jinroku) seems to have been a Sakai (Osaka) smith, and his two sons or disciples of the same family name must have first worked in Osaka, and then moved to Himeji Han in Banshu (Harima no Kuni). (Himeji of the World Heritage Himeji Castle fame.) Unfortunately I cannot find a date for him, but one of these later Takakura smiths above, Takakura Jinroku Shigemasa, is dated for Kanei 10, a pistol in Itsukushima Jinja (Miyajima) in Hiroshima. This will give you something to work with if you can find out any more about them.

 

What we can probably say is that Takakura Jinroku (with no further name underneath), must have lived and worked in Settsu in the early years of the 1600s. I cannot see why someone might have faked that signature.

Further photographs of your gun may help us to further confirm such a dating.

[Brownac1983]

Wow, thank you very much. 1600s, really? I never would have guessed it could be that old.

 

According to the auction company, the barrel is 30-3/4" (781mm) overall length. I'll confirm their measurement when I receive it.

 

After she made the translation, I was able to find a very similar looking gun which appears to have been made by Takakura Jinroku, although I don't know anything about the website where I found it. http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/T220256_R1241.htm

 

I also found this photo of a 3-barrelled matchlock which claims to have been signed by Jinroku Takakura, but it appears to be a repost and I can't find the original source of the photo. https://www.pinterest.co.kr/pin/7881368070869480/

 

I'm out of town for business, so it might be a couple weeks, but I'll post highly detailed photos as soon as I get home. I'd love to learn more about it. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge.

 

  -Drew

 

 

Hi Drew, welcome here. You have found out quite a bit already in advance and your information is good!

 

The gun's proportions with shortish fattish swamped barrel suggest a 軍用筒 (pron. 'goon-yo-zutsu') ie a proper gun made for warfare, and apart from the missing bits, in generally good condition, but presumably you have no measurements yet. The flash pan seems to have been reworked or relined, perhaps from heavy use. Hard to see in that shot. There is a middle sight and a foresight, but... no back sight?

 

The name is interesting as I have not run across it before. The father of this line (your smith Takakura Jinroku) seems to have been a Sakai (Osaka) smith, and his two sons or disciples of the same family name must have first worked in Osaka, and then moved to Himeji Han in Banshu (Harima no Kuni). (Himeji of the World Heritage Himeji Castle fame.) Unfortunately I cannot find a date for him, but one of these later Takakura smiths above, Takakura Jinroku Shigemasa, is dated for Kanei 10, a pistol in Itsukushima Jinja (Miyajima) in Hiroshima. This will give you something to work with if you can find out any more about them.

 

What we can probably say is that Takakura Jinroku (with no further name underneath), must have lived and worked in Settsu in the early years of the 1600s. I cannot see why someone might have faked that signature.

Further photographs of your gun may help us to further confirm such a dating.

[Viper6924]

Great work with the signature, Piers!

I think the shape of the stock, the rings around the pins, the rather small trigger guard all supports the notion of a 17th century matchlock.

Looking forward to some better pictures when you get the matchlock.

 

Jan

[Brownac1983]

Hey guys,

 Sorry for the delay, I've been working a lot. At the link below are some better pictures of the gun, let me know what you think. Thanks in advance.

   -Drew

 

http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/brownac1983/library/Tanegashima

[Brownac1983]

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/brownac1983/embed/slideshow/Tanegashima"></iframe>

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Drew, much better and more informative shots. Thanks! I once bought a gun (visiting Ako with Brian) with the back sight in a similar unusual position, and no marks further back on the barrel to suggest that there had ever been another. It looks as though an attempt to remove the Bisen has failed? You have not mentioned the bore, the muzzle's internal diameter. Looking like it could be over 1.6 cm, at a rough guess. Much good in your gun, and worth restoring sympathetically.

 

From your links it looks as though the 'Takakura Jinroku' name was used through several generations, the three-barreled gun being right at the end of Edo. Perhaps relatives moved to Himeji? The other longer barrelled gun is in many ways quite different from yours, not least the muzzle shape and positioning of the rear sight.

[Brownac1983]

Hi Drew, much better and more informative shots. Thanks! I once bought a gun (visiting Ako with Brian) with the back sight in a similar unusual position, and no marks further back on the barrel to suggest that there had ever been another. It looks as though an attempt to remove the Bisen has failed? You have not mentioned the bore, the muzzle's internal diameter. Looking like it could be over 1.6 cm, at a rough guess. Much good in your gun, and worth restoring sympathetically.

 

From your links it looks as though the 'Takakura Jinroku' name was used through several generations, the three-barreled gun being right at the end of Edo. Perhaps relatives moved to Himeji? The other longer barrelled gun is in many ways quite different from yours, not least the muzzle shape and positioning of the rear sight.

 

Thanks Piers. I don't see any evidence of another sight having ever been present.

 

The Bisun doesn't appear to have any recent damage. The corners are a bit rounded, but if this was done in an attempt to remove it, it was a long time ago.

 

The flash pan does appear to be either lined or reworked, again at some point in the distant past.

 

As far as the muzzle diameter, I'll need to measure it and get back to you, but I would guess it to be right around 1.6 cm. 

 

Another thing I found out upon examination is that it appears to be loaded. I'll have to find my ball puller and see if I can get that out.

 

 -Drew

[Brownac1983]

Hi guys, if I could ask your opinion on one more thing, after borescoping my Tanegashima, it appears that what I thought was a load is actually a plug. It seems that someone has poured about 2-3 cm of a white metal, to a point just above the flash hole. What's odd about it is that it doesn't appear to be lead, as it's very white and shiny without the grey powdery texture that lead gets over time. Have any of you dealt with this before? My plan is to soak the bisun bolt in penetrating oil for a few weeks before gently attempting to remove it and evaluate the plug.

-Drew

[Bugyotsuji]

Here's hoping that the Bisen moves for you.

 

As to the metal used to deactivate your gun, lead was indeed used traditionally. The law has been tightened up over recent years, however, so guns like these can only be legally owned without registration papers in Japan  if the plug can be shown to be more difficult to remove than lead. On the other hand, maybe you can find a smith like the one our friend Anthony in Sweden has, who likes a challenge, saying he can drill out and remove anything from the inside of a barrel.

[Brownac1983]

Success! I finally got the Bisen out. I've been soaking it in penetrating oil since my last post and trying it once a month or so. It finally decided to move. The bore turned out not to be plugged with lead, rather something gritty that soaked up the oil and broke apart, it almost looked like clay or cement. I've got the bisen in the ultrasonic cleaner now, it appears to have a very old hairline crack down the middle but it's functional. Now to get the touch hole and bore cleaned out.

[Bugyotsuji]

Fantastic achievement, well done!
In the last year I have managed to remove one out of two that were bugging me. The other I have/had almost given up on until seeing your happy post.
Often these guns were hidden inside earthen walls for centuries. Perhaps that is some of what you have found down the barrel.

PS 1.6 cm is spot on for a good-sized military gun. They are often generically called Roku-Monmé-zutsu’. 6匁筒

[ChrisW]

Such a beautiful matchlock! I know a guy locally that owns one, has it in his shop and its 95% complete and absolutely gorgeous but the price he asks for is a bit too high for anyone around here to seriously consider it.

[Viper6924]

Looks like a bisen in good condition. As Piers, I’m also currently trying to dislodge a bisen from an old Satsuma-style matchlock. Been going at it since December. I wouldn’t call it a war but there is def ”an absence of peace” between me and that darn screw. But after reading this post, I will continue tapping the metal and adding some new anti-corrosion oil. Hopefully one day...

 

Jan

[Brian]

Have only 2 nice guns, and neither of them will release the bisen.
I gave up eventually. Maybe I should carry on trying.

[Brownac1983]

The "penetrating oil" that I used to break mine loose is a home brew that a 90 year old machinist/mechanic showed me years ago. Equal parts acetone and automatic transmission fluid. It has to be the old non-synthetic fluid, Dexron 2/ Ford type F or earlier. It outperforms anything I've seen off the shelf.

 

Pure wintergreen oil is also an excellent penetrant if the non-synthetic transmission fluid isn't available where you live. It's expensive but it works great.

[Bugyotsuji]

One word of Warning to anyone reading this thread!

 

Each barrel and each Bisen and each type of rust/corrosion will be different, so whoever attacks the Bisen should be aware enough to change method for each one.

 

For example, use of extreme heat might damage inlay (silver for example) on the barrel. Use of an industrial vise can easily gouge and disfigure the barrel itself, and in your enthusiasm a Bisen can either fracture down the middle, or the head can simply break off.

 

(Before. Removal of the brass pan lid might be advisable, as it can collapse under the stresses applied.)

 

So it's carrot and stick, to be sure, but gently used and in good measure!

[Brian]

And be very careful, because more than a handful of these are still loaded. Many which are thought to be plugged are actually loaded. The powder can disintegrate into a solid mass, but in some cases can go off if exposed to high heat.

[Bugyotsuji]

A word from the far north reached me today, advising about a super penetrating oil that those in the construction industry say they use to unlock rusty screws 'within' 24 hours.

So off I rushed to the hardware store to see what was available. The label on the very best looking rust muncher said, "Contains acid. Wash off with water, preferably warm water within one hour, or this will begin to eat into the base metal itself. Do NOT use on swords, antiques, etc." Well, there is no way I am going to pour water down the barrel with no way of drying it out and preventing further rust.

So I bought the next-best-looking can of magic and set to work immediately.

 

It's a race, guys!

[Brownac1983]

The label on the very best looking rust muncher said, "Contains acid. Wash off with water, preferably warm water within one hour, or this will begin to eat into the base metal itself. Do NOT use on swords, antiques, etc." 

The acid based stuff, or anything that chemically removes rust, will remove any bluing and/or patina instantly. Even plain white vinegar will ruin bluing. You want a rust penetrant, but definitely not a rust remover. The finish on your ferrous parts, whether browned patina or surviving bluing, is basically rust.

[Brownac1983]

One word of Warning to anyone reading this thread!

 

Each barrel and each Bisen and each type of rust/corrosion will be different, so whoever attacks the Bisen should be aware enough to change method for each one.

 

For example, use of extreme heat might damage inlay (silver for example) on the barrel. Use of an industrial vise can easily gouge and disfigure the barrel itself, and in your enthusiasm a Bisen can either fracture down the middle, or the head can simply break off.

 

(Before. Removal of the brass pan lid might be advisable, as it can collapse under the stresses applied.)

 

So it's carrot and stick, to be sure, but gently used and in good measure!

This is true. My Bisen does have a partial fracture down the middle, which I noticed on the head when I first cleaned it up to attempt removal. The fracture doesn't appear to affect the functionality of the bisen, and it appears to be quite old because it was packed with crud and doesn't show any shiny metal when viewed under magnification. My guess would be that someone made a heavy handed attempt at removal using the hole in the bisen for leverage.

 

I clamped the bisen head in a padded parallel machinist's vise and used a strap wrench to turn the barrel. A strap wrench, when used properly, never puts anything metallic in contact with the barrel. The nylon strap wraps around the barrel and the leverage of the wrench tightens and rotates the strap at the same time. The best ones have straps that are rubber coated for gripping power.

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Well, about three weeks ago I bought a strap wrench, but it must have been a cheapie as I soon gave up on it. The rubber stretches. 

 

Update. No news.

Been 'encouraging' and cajoling my Bisen with a series of daily activities for around two months now, but absolutely no sign of movement. YET.