Iida Latches

[Ontario_Archaeology]

Another example here: https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/h516314955

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Nice one! (wow, they want $2,000 USD for koshirae!!!)

[PNSSHOGUN]

The mon is not original IMO. Yes, very expensive, earlier this year one was listed for more than that and had a fair bit of damage.

[Stegel]

While transferring files after a computer melt down, i came across these, i'm sure i've posted them before, but thought i'd add them here also.

It seems there this latch method was not reserved just for Army use, the Navy got to use these aswell.

I found these posted on a forum some 5 years ago 

 

Edit- found the forum , it was Gunboards.

 

 

[Stegel]

Here's an Army one, notice the second mekugi position in the handle not being used (1st pic)

 

[Stegel]

One more....

so far they all have different numbers stamped, probably like seppa numbering, used in the initial fit outs?

[Stegel]

Last one, an ordinary 'Normal' tsuba, but with the same loop 'appendage' added

It has the first seppa moulded as part of the tsuba, so perhaps it was intended, but never got to be used in the Iida latch set up

[IJASWORDS]

Stegel, I have seen that loop on quite a few swords without the Iida latch. Pictured is one of my Iida latches with the number, 147, which matches the other fittings. I think that the individual components had to fit precisely, so I am sure they were made in individually fitted sets. Love the Kai with the latch (and the red toe nails!).  

[IJASWORDS]

Just noticed on other photos, different characters and different number of characters above the Arabic nunbers. Could some one translate the various examples, please.  

[PNSSHOGUN]

1 hour ago, Stegel said:

Last one, an ordinary 'Normal' tsuba, but with the same loop 'appendage' added

It has the first seppa moulded as part of the tsuba, so perhaps it was intended, but never got to be used in the Iida latch set up

 

Look closely at the Fuchi, it has the same unique blossom design as the other Iida swords, this is quite interesting.

[SteveM]

 

専賣特許（専売特許）

Exclusive Patent

飯田式錠蓋

Iida-style locking lid

 

出願中

Patent pending

 

 

[IJASWORDS]

John, I find this interesting as well, no blossoms, no patent, nothing at all. 

[Dave R]

16 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Nice one! (wow, they want $2,000 USD for koshirae!!!)

 

 I suspect there is a brisk market for such in Japan. You get a nice display without the hassle of licensing a blade.

[Kiipu]

On 3/22/2018 at 3:16 AM, SteveM said:

I wonder if Iida Kōendō could help you out. It is the Tokyo sword shop run by the descendants of Mr. Iida of the scabbard-latch fame. At least, I think it is...memory is getting slightly buggy.

 

Nothing wrong with your memory!

Very Unusual Gunto Koshirae

[reeder]

On 11/10/2020 at 1:54 AM, PNSSHOGUN said:

Look closely at the Fuchi, it has the same unique blossom design as the other Iida swords, this is quite interesting.

Those are my pics from one I used to own. It was a wakizashi.

 

from the lock mounts I’ve seen, the blades tend to be Imai Sadashige. Is that what others have observed as well?

[Bruce Pennington]

Stephen just posted a video interviewing the 5th generation Iida, who runs a sword shop.  He briefly discusses his ancestor's invention.

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Here is a wartime catalog from Iida Koendo with pictures and info of the special Iida latch. Wonder what the text says?

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Number 912, for sale by our own @matthewbrice on ebay:

 

[matthewbrice]

Hi Bruce.  Yes, I love those Iida latch swords.  
 

BTW—I’m getting that blade polished.  The blade is going to be a stunner.  Killer hamon.  I figure it should be back from the polisher in 3 months or so. 
 

 

 

 

—Matt

[IJASWORDS]

If you go back to Bruce's video he posted, at about 6mins 20secs in, there is the rational for the latch and cover. And some nice photos. 

Photo of one of mine with Gendai MASAFUSA blade for comparison.   

[Bruce Pennington]

Neil, or anyone who owns one of these - Are these latches on a spring?  Hard to tell from the photos.  They appear to stay open when raised, but they must have a spring to hold them closed or they'd flap about with the blade out.  If on a spring, how do you avoid the flap from rubbing against the blade as it is withdrawn?

[Matsunoki]

Hi Bruce

mine (link below) does have a spring but when you draw the sword it stays firmly in the fully open position and requires pressure to close it….it then “snaps” shut firmly and the spring holds it closed.   All the best  Colin

 

[Kiipu]

The Iida latch came about during the Sino-Japanese War that started in 1937.  Water was getting into the sword scabbards when crossing rivers & such and causing rust damage.  Japanese troops were complaining and Iida san came out with this latch to address the problem.

[John C]

2 hours ago, Kiipu said:

Water was getting into the sword scabbards when crossing rivers & such and causing rust damage.

Seems as if the latch would only be useful in protecting the inside of the scabbard when the sword was drawn. Did they remove the blade from the scabbard while crossing rivers to protect it? (Kind of like a soldier holding his rifle above his head?)

John C.

[Matsunoki]

Whilst the latch is very well machined and a tight fit there are no rubber or other seals and I doubt it was waterproof. It would stop an immediate total swamping for a few seconds but not prolonged immersion.

[Kiipu]

I read about it in a Russian article that I mentioned in the bibliography.

Bibliography of Japanese Modern Edged Weapons, 1868-1945

 

Quote

"При обнажённом мече на дне ножен скапливалась дождевая вода или речная во время переправы, и это приводило к коррозии клинка, что  тревожило военнослужащих. Именно поэтому почтенный Кунитаро и задался мыслью изобрести нечто такое, что этому будет препятствовать"6. Запатентованное устройство Иида дало офицерскому оружию (включая морские образцы) тот уровень защиты клинка от агрессивной среды, который не могли обеспечить обычные механизмы зажимной скобы, устанавливаемые на военных мечах. В наши дни редкие мечи с затворным устройством Иида являются желанным объектом приобретения для коллекционеров. После окончания Второй мировой войны Иида Кунитаро активно участвовал в движении по возрождению искусства японского меча. Его третий сын Иида Кадзуо, родившийся в 1934 году, стал одним из ведущих исследователей и экспертов в области мечей. Иида Кунитаро скончался в больничных стенах 17 сентября 1979 года (54 год Сёва) в префектуре Тиба.

 

A Google translation comes up with the following.

“With a naked sword, rainwater or river water accumulated at the bottom of the scabbard during the crossing, and this led to corrosion of the blade, which worried the military. That is why the venerable Kunitaro set out to invent something that would prevent this”6. Iida's patented device gave officer weapons (including naval designs) a level of blade protection against harsh environments that conventional clevis mechanisms found on military swords could not provide. These days, rare swords with the Iida breech mechanism are sought after by collectors. After the end of World War II, Iida Kunitaro was actively involved in the movement to revive the art of the Japanese sword. His third son Iida Kazuo, born in 1934, became one of the leading sword researchers and experts. Iida Kunitaro died in a hospital on September 17, 1979 (Showa 54) in Chiba Prefecture.

 

@wiktor69 Is this Google translation more or less correct?

[PNSSHOGUN]

In the interview of the current owner of Iida koendo, it was stated the latch was made in response from wealthy officers wanting to protect their good quality swords from dust, dirt and other debris.

[John C]

Thank you. Just in general, the latch idea makes sense. Keep dust, debris, and water out of the scabbard when the sword is drawn. It was the whole river water thing that threw me. 

John C.

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce, in the closeup photo, you will see a dot of spot weld. This spot weld secures a flat piece of spring steel steel (NOT a coil spring) that keeps the cover erect or flat. The saya is then painted over on assembly. 

I have been contacted by a few collectors who had missing springs, and wanted to know how to repair or replace the spring. This would be a delicate operation!!   

[Bruce Pennington]

12 hours ago, IJASWORDS said:

This spot weld secures a flat piece of spring steel steel (NOT a coil spring) that keeps the cover erect or flat.

Interesting design, thanks Neil!  Solves the problem by keeping the flap open & closed.