Iida Latches

[IJASWORDS]

See photos. I have some of the uncommon Iida latch type Guntos and have a question about their differences in design. There are subtle differences in their design and function. No knurling on one, no patent number on another, different hardware used. I was told that the one with no numbers could be a prototype or a manufacture before patents were issued. It may also be from another manufacturer as there are many subtle design differences between the two.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Bruce Pennington]

Neil, my good man. I can see that this inconsistancy is troubling you greatly! In a totally selfless act, I propose you mail one of them to me, thereby removing the conflict and sparing you this suffering. Hurry, we don't want this to affect your health!!!

 

In the meantime ... I certainly don't know the answer, but wanted to comment on the unusual kuchigane of the top one in the 3rd photo. Lends to your idea that there was a certain tolerance by acceptance inspectors for certain amount of variation.

 

But back to your fretting ... you have my address, right?!

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce, I thank you for your usual charitable and selfless offer to solve my dilemma.

[Shamsy]

I'd suggest the second option more likely Neil. Another manufacturer cashing in on a good idea. Pure speculation though.

[PNSSHOGUN]

My guess is early vs full production variants. Often quality starts higher (checkered release) and is reduced for full production.

[SteveM]

I wonder if Iida Kōendō could help you out. It is the Tokyo sword shop run by the descendants of Mr. Iida of the scabbard-latch fame. At least, I think it is...memory is getting slightly buggy. 

 

http://iidakoendo.com/english/

[IJASWORDS]

Thanks Steve, I will try that.

[IJASWORDS]

I have continued to attempt to track down WW2 references to the Iida latch and it's maker. This maybe a reference. Maybe Trystan or Kipu could determine if this WW2 advertisement relates to Iida. 

[Kiipu]

The address is the same for both the advertisement and the Iida patent.  So they are related. The company name in the advertisement is Iida Shop Unlimited Partnership 合名会社･飯田商店. 

 

The translation of the latch can be found at the thread below.

"Iida Kunitaro Gunto Koshirae - Help"

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/18110-iida-kunitaro-gunto-koshirae-help/

 

I am sure SteveM and BangBangSan will be along shortly to fill in some more gaps.

[Kiipu]

Neil, AKA IJASwords, there is something wrong with your private mail.

 

Edit: FYI, it is up and running fine now.

[Ontario_Archaeology]

Here are three examples I've saved images of from auctions over the past few years. 

[IJASWORDS]

Matt H, thanks for posting your examples. There are subtle differences in stamps and knurling. Here's one, no stamps no knurling. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

The Fuchi & Koiguchi are also unadorned, usually seen on later war swords with leather retention tabs. The blade looks to be of very fine quality though, strange combination.

[Dave R]

8 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

The Fuchi & Koiguchi are also unadorned, usually seen on later war swords with leather retention tabs. The blade looks to be of very fine quality though, strange combination.

 

 I would suggest that it is later war, and the blade one of those picked up in the sword collection/purchase drives that we now know about.....  For those not familiar with what I was meaning here is a doc. from Mr Komiya, thought it appears that the blade is one of those rare genuine family blades.

gunto call up 12-23-2017.pdf

Edited August 26, 2020 by Dave R
added file

[BANGBANGSAN]

Neil
Very cool Lida latches. I heard the metal loop on the Tsuba is for tassel? Not sure how it works.Also, I noticed the bigger Seppa(cross-like)of is made on the Lida Tsuba, 
So, unlike most Tsuba, it only needs 2 or 3 smaller Seppa.

 

[IJASWORDS]

Trystan, good question about the metal loop on the tsuba. The only way I have been able to attach the tassel......

Take off the sarute

Pull the tassel through the metal loop with string or fishing line 

Tie the tassel onto the sarute

Re-attach the sarute onto the tzuka. Voila!!! 

And to be honest, the tassel looks very smart done like this. 

[IJASWORDS]

This is how they look assembled.

[BANGBANGSAN]

I mean Lida style Tsuba don't need larger cross Seppa, it's made into Tsuba already.

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Interesting observation Trystan!  Neil, I see yours is made the same way, and they even painted the thickened center the burnt red color as they would the boar's eye seppa.

 

I hate to sidetrack the thread, but wasn't there a thread, Neil, where you explored the purpose of that metal loop?  I tried a search but, alas, you know how bad I am at searches.  My follow-on question is "Are these loops only found on Iada-made fittings?"

[IJASWORDS]

Bruce, there was a thread, that's where I learnt it was for a tassel. 

Secondly, I have seen that loop on a regular '98. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Here is the thread: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/23639-tsuba-appendage/

[Bruce Pennington]

36 minutes ago, IJASWORDS said:

, I have seen that loop on a regular '98

Hmmm, probably no way to tell if the other fittings were made by the Iida shop though.

[IJASWORDS]

Just love the original red paint on these. Beautiful contrast against the gold.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Just like the early red gloss Saya on Type 94, it's a perfect combo.

[lonely panet]

Oh Neil, I'm getting aroused 

[Dave R]

4 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Just like the early red gloss Saya on Type 94, it's a perfect combo.

 

 You reckon red gloss saya are a mark of a 94?

[PNSSHOGUN]

19 minutes ago, Dave R said:

 

 You reckon red gloss saya are a mark of a 94?

While certainly not an absolute rule, more often than not they are found on Type 94 and early Type 98. Of the three Type 94 I own, all have with gloss red/brown saya (one with remnants of the original finish).

[BANGBANGSAN]

19 hours ago, IJASWORDS said:

Trystan, good question about the metal loop on the tsuba. The only way I have been able to attach the tassel......

Take off the sarute

Pull the tassel through the metal loop with string or fishing line 

Tie the tassel onto the sarute

Re-attach the sarute onto the tzuka. Voila!!! 

And to be honest, the tassel looks very smart done like this. 

Neil

Can you post a photo for that?Thanks!

[Dave R]

On 8/27/2020 at 3:00 AM, IJASWORDS said:

Trystan, good question about the metal loop on the tsuba. The only way I have been able to attach the tassel......

Take off the sarute

Pull the tassel through the metal loop with string or fishing line 

Tie the tassel onto the sarute

Re-attach the sarute onto the tzuka. Voila!!! 

And to be honest, the tassel looks very smart done like this. 

 

 It might look smart, but the sword knot (tassel) can no longer be used for its intended purpose.

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, Dave R said:

the sword knot (tassel) can no longer be used for its intended purpose

Wow Dave!  That's the first time I've seen an officer wearing the tassel as a retention strap.  I've seen a couple of NCO pics of them in use that way, but never an officer.  Great picture!

 

It puts the purpose of the metal loop back in question, though.  I suspect not all officers were inclined to actually use the strap, and would have used the metal loop for their tassel as the whole thing, for many, was a status symbol.