Marine Mount Gendaito

[geekman]

Someone got very lucky on this one!!  

 

Very rare blade by an excellent smith.

 

 

Brian Murashige

WW2 STAR STAMP  Japanese Samurai Sword _ eBay.htmFetching info...

[geekman]

Having problems uploading file.

Sorry 

 

Brian Murashige

[Ray Singer]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/323082102033?_trksid=p2471758.m4704

[geekman]

Sorry, link will not download properly.

 

Anyway, it was a Katana by Mitsuoki otherwise known as Shibata Ka.  Blade was sold for $2,858.99, which is cheap considering that he made mostly tantos and this was a 27"

 

Katana which usually fetches $6-8,000 range. So someone got an excellent deal on this one.   

 

 

Brian Murashige

[geekman]

Hi Ray,

 

       Thank you for the help!!  I'm an idiot when it comes to attaching flies and stuff...

 

Mahalo,

 

Brian Murashige

[Ray Singer]

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/5150-gendaito-mitsuokishibata-ka/

[Ray Singer]

Looked like a nice sword, however it also has a fair sized hakobore mid-blade. Shibata Ka's work is very prone to exhibiting to exhibiting kitae-ware. I am not sure that I would have taken the risk on this one, even considering the extreme quality of his work. This one below was previously mine, was a special order sword, and took quite some time for the for the next owner to sell for $7,700 even though it was in a top-level work, mukansa polish, papers, etc...

 

http://www.ricecracker.com/inventory/1112_katana_shibata_ka/1112_katana_shibata_ka.html

[Kai-Gunto]

Type 3 sword was not marine ,but Army.

[geekman]

Ray,

 

       Thanks for the link.   

 

       Yes, I agree with you that it's taking a chance with items that come up on ebay like this.  Like you said, you really don't know the types of flaws that you may find when the blade gets into your possession. 

 

       Interesting,  I wasn't aware that Ka's work were prone to kitae-ware as I have never seen his work in person.  It seems that he was held in very high esteem by the older sword experts.  Don't know if it was more political, being that he came from a prominent family at the time. 

 

       Very grateful for the info!!

 

Brian Murashige

[geekman]

Kai-Gunto,

 

             Thanks for the correction.   I was told that it was a marine mount back in the days 40 some years ago.  

 

 

 

Brian Murashige

[Ray Singer]

Shibata Ka's work is (in mine opinion) remarkable for the high quality of the jigane and naturalistic hamon with beautiful activity. Ka was in a unique position due to his financial resources of being able to view great masterworks at length in hand, from his own collection. His weak areas appear to be in sugata, which sometimes is quite stiff, and forging a fault-free jitetsu. This may be due to the fact that Ka was largely self-taught and produced few works. A discussion of a Ka tanto with a kitae-ware appears in one of the recent references on modern Japanese swordsmiths.

 

 

 

  On 3/6/2018 at 9:37 PM, geekman said:

Interesting,  I wasn't aware that Ka's work were prone to kitae-ware as I have never seen his work in person.  It seems that he was held in very high esteem by the older sword experts.  Don't know if it was more political, being that he came from a prominent family at the time.

[geekman]

Yes,  I had heard that his work was often mistaken for Kamakura period work due to the high quality of his jigane.   As you said, it was quite remarkable due to the fact that he was self-taught, like Endo Mitsuoki who is often confused with this individual.  I hope that I'll be able to see some of his work someday.

 

 

 

Brian Murashige

[Jean]

Brian wrote: « I'm an idiot when it comes to attaching flies « 

 

Brian,

 

Don’t be too harsh with yourself, i have tried many times but always failed »

[geekman]

Jean,

 

         Thanks!!  I appreciate that!!  Somehow I always get messed up trying to do these things!!

 

 

Brian Murashige

[David Flynn]

As wise Homer Simpson once said to Bart,  "  You tried and failed,  so what have you learned?   Never try."

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 3/6/2018 at 9:39 PM, geekman said:

Kai-Gunto,

 

             Thanks for the correction.   I was told that it was a marine mount back in the days 40 some years ago.  

 

 

 

Brian Murashige

Brian,

 

The collecting world has made some strides in the last 70 years in updating our understanding of WWII gunto. There is an extensive discussion of this style Army sword here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/deflating-another-myth-type-3-army-officer-s-sword-expanded-version-584796/

 

But the short version is they were originally designed as a simpler, cheaper, and more hardy version of the Army officer gunto. It seems like they developed a fan-base, as several have valuable blades in them, and the fittings on some were clearly expensive upgrades.

 

The Japanese of WWII didn't have a "marines" as we know it, but did have some Navy personnel who worked alongside the army on several of the islands. When they carried a non-standard gunto, in pictures that we have, they are the standard navy scabbard with an army handle on a naval blade.

[vajo]

I can't go with many of this deflating myth of komiya. Sorry. Komiya is looking like a militaria collector on swords. He doesn't distinguish the art of swords between the different smiths under pressure of war and the limitations of supply. Many of these smiths are great artisan and bring back the great ancient times of sword making with their work. Ohmura is much better in his analysis and should be respected for his work.

[David Flynn]

Bruce, What is a naval blade?

[Jean]

Something with a stamped anchor?

[Dave R]

 

Bruce, What is a naval blade?

 

 

  Usually a rust resistant steel, or Gendai from the Minatogawa shrine.The Naval Landing force was a distinct entity from the army with slightly different uniform and equipment. Most provenanced photo's are from the Shanghai incident.

 

[David Flynn]

Sorry David, but my definition would be,  any sword in a Naval mount.  Don't forget, anti- rust blades are also found in Shin Gunto.  However, by the way Bruce has posted, Naval Blades are an entity of their own.

[Dave R]

  On 3/7/2018 at 4:11 PM, vajo said:

I can't go with many of this deflating myth of komiya. Sorry. Komiya is looking like a militaria collector on swords. He doesn't distinguish the art of swords between the different smiths under pressure of war and the limitations of supply. Many of these smiths are great artisan and bring back the great ancient times of sword making with their work. Ohmura is much better in his analysis and should be respected for his work.

 

  Seeing as Nick is fluent in German, as well as Japanese and English, why don't you PM him and get this sorted to your own satisfaction.

[Dave R]

  On 3/7/2018 at 10:45 PM, David Flynn said:

Sorry David, but my definition would be,  any sword in a Naval mount.  Don't forget, anti- rust blades are also found in Shin Gunto.  However, by the way Bruce has posted, Naval Blades are an entity of their own.

 

  I think this one could go back and forth forever. There is still a lot of research to be done, and new stuff turns up all the time..... Part of what makes the military blades so interesting to me.

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 3/7/2018 at 9:20 PM, David Flynn said:

Bruce, What is a naval blade?

Sorry David, I was talking out of my butt! I've seen pictures of these but never seen one presented and broken down.

 

The pictures show a naval saya and an army tsuka - clearly not a Rinji or one of the controversial post-war navy/army mixed ones.

[geekman]

Bruce,

 

      Thanks for the article and info.  Yes, things have changed a lot.  Information is more readily available, as well as a lot more research discovering new information.

 

Thanks!!

 

Brian Murashige