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Aoi Yamaura Saneo

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Geraint Grand Master

Geraint

Posted
Posted

Dear Peter.

 

Some random thoughts to add to what Luis has suggested.  It's unsigned and for the period that's a problem.  The koshirae is weak, lots of nice shiny gold laquer but the fittings are pretty low grade, the sort of standard that often finds it's way onto handachi koshirae.  Most of the fittings do not match the hangers. The tsuba did not start life as a tachi tsuba and the tsuka is a bit crude in its shaping.  Interesting that we have papers for the tsuba and menuki but not the whiole koshirae which you might expect for an original koshirae.  Compare to say this one, http://www.nihonto.com/7-23-14/

 

I am sure that Tsuruta san has taken all this into account in setting the price.

 

It may still sell inside Japan but most collectors with near £20k to spend would probably be more selective I imagine.

 

(Dear Moderators, my apologies if this contravenes the guidelines on discussing auctions please feel free to delete.)

 

All the best.

  • Like 1
TheGermanBastard

TheGermanBastard

Posted
Posted

Hello Peter,

 

Geraint is right and I have missed out the most important point ... it being Mumei. Bob Benson once told me that he does not buy anything Mumei that is later than Nanbokucho. Persoanlly I try to stick to this piece of advice.

 

Some time ago a very nice Kyonori Mumei Tanto in full polish Shirasaya with Hozon got sold out of Japan. The dealer sold it as low as about 1300.00 USD ... it has sicne changed hands several times. Highestes price tag was about 2400.00 ... a very nice blade. Kiyomara school ... but again Mumei. Nihontocraft had a signed Kiyonori Tanto with Hozon and small Umegane. Also went for under 2k. I have an Enshin blade, nihontocraft.com has an Enshin Daisho. Again both linked Kiyomare school but not moving - while they are of course inferior to Saneo ... but there is just not huge interest in Kiyomara school as it seems. At least less than I would have thought.

 

Also I have to correct and critize myself for being sloppy. Geraint is right. I didn't bother to even open the Koshirae image to its large version. It is not a quality piece but just a rather cheap, flashy knock off. The Tsuba is good but not a Tachi one has Geraint has again suggested. Still it is the best thing on the Koshirae. The F/K are poor.

 

So in end the I have to quote myself in a recent topic about a potential Tadayoshi Wakzashi: If you can buy a great masters work cheap because it is all but great then you probably shouldn't. If Monet painted a penis wile drunk it probably wouldn't fetch billions at Christies eventhough being a real Monet.

Ray Singer Grand Master

Ray Singer

Posted
Posted

Both of those tanto were works by Saito Kiyondo. Kiyondo's work sells at a higher price to Saneo. He is held in great esteem by many collectors due to the story that he worked for 2 years producing swords to complete his orders his master received. There is an extremely high interest in Kiyomaro school work, but the second generation students do not command the same excitement as Nobuhide, Kiyondo, Saneo, Masao...

 

 

Some time ago a very nice Kyonori Mumei Tanto in full polish Shirasaya with Hozon got sold out of Japan. The dealer sold it as low as about 1300.00 USD ... it has sicne changed hands several times. Highestes price tag was about 2400.00 ... a very nice blade. Kiyomara school ... but again Mumei. Nihontocraft had a signed Kiyonori Tanto with Hozon and small Umegane. Also went for under 2k. I have an Enshin blade, nihontocraft.com has an Enshin Daisho. Again both linked Kiyomare school but not moving - while they are of course inferior to Saneo ... but there is just not huge interest in Kiyomara school as it seems. At least less than I would have thought.

TheGermanBastard

TheGermanBastard

Posted
Posted

Luis and Geraint, thank you for this analysis. Yes mumei shinshinto do not receive TH, ...

 

Best

 

Hello Peter,

 

this is not necessarily right. As a basic rule, yes you are right. But a Mumei Kiyomara would well receive TBH and could even get Juyo ... the Kiyomara which had been on Aoi Art some time ago had TBH and was said to have been submitted for Juyo as an example.

 

But again aside from the paper I feel that this blade just does not stand up the lebel of quality you would expect from such a high ranking smith. It is my cheap oppinion but I am more picky over Kizu the younger the blade. While I wouldn'tz mind Ware on a Heian blade at all but jsut be happy to have such an old thing it is definately the kiss of death for me to see a young blade with lots of Kizu.

Jussi Ekholm Veteran

Jussi Ekholm

Posted
Posted

I do not follow Shinshintō swords so I cannot really comment on their pricing. However it is quite easy to find signed swords by Saneo (I just found out he used a big bunch of different names). Multiple Japanese shops have had signed swords by Saneo for sale. So spending 2,7M yen on mumei Saneo seems bit too much for me. Needless too say if I'd ever had money like that to invest on a sword I'd be looking at lot earlier swords.

 

Here is a signed one at Asahi Tōken for 3,6M yen: http://asahitoken.jp/contents/01_token/details/token-B/B035_K.html

Ed Veteran

Ed

Posted
Posted

I think Peter's question can be answered with one word, quality.  The sword in question may the work of Saneo, but it is clearly a mediocre piece.  Without commenting on the koshirae and focusing entirely on the sword there are many negative points.  Things like the many small ware along the blade, the poorly finished nakago, the fact that it is unsigned.  Then there is the total lack of the long kinsuji, clouds of nie, ara nie, etc., one would expect to see in his works.

 

These are not my best photos but here are a few examples of activity seen in the work of Saneo.  This particular wakizashi was polished and papered by the elder and now deceased Yoshikawa San of the NTHK and was featured in the Token To Rekishi. It is unfortunately suriage but retains a partial mei and was signed Toshimasa.

 

 

 

 

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  • Like 1
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