Can You Help With Any Information On A Sword.

[blackandamber]

Hello,

 

Firstly, thank you in advance for reading this message, I have zero knowledge of swords but was pointed in this direction for information.

 

My grandad gave me a sword that was surrendered to him during ww2 whilst he was out in the far east. I don't have any more information that that as he spoke very little of his time over there and he has since passed on. I have attached a few pictures of the sword along with the possession papers. I am simply looking for information on the sword, it is not something I would ever sell, its not in any great condition and it may not be even worth any money but I would like to frame or the display the sword in my home.

 

If there is any more information of pictures I can supply please just ask.

 

Thank you again for your time.

 

[ROKUJURO]

Blackandamber,

it looks like a military sword. More could be said if you remove the handle. Push out the bamboo peg and pull the handle off. Take care not to touch the blade with your bare fingers. Read here on NMB about preservation, care and etiquette of Japanese swords.

And please sign all posts with your first name plus an initial.  

[Bruce Pennington]

It's a Type 98 Officer sword in leather-wrapped combat saya (scabbard). The white plastice-looking material in the handle, under the silk wrap is called celluloid, a man-made replacement for the stingyray skin that is normally there, but fairly commonly found on officer swords.

 

Don't be afraid to remove the handle like Jean says. Most likely there will be a swordsmith name imprinted on the tang (nakago). Take the picture with the blade tip pointed up and tang pointed down so it can be read easily. There may be writing on both sides, so post them both if so. Check for a small stamp, if there, at the top of the tang.

 

Also, please give pics of the tip of the blade and a section of the middle. Shots of the handguard and spacers once off, and a closeup of the metal tip on the handle are useful.

[blackandamber]

Hello,

 

Thank you both for your responses, I have managed to remove the suggested pieces and attached some further photos. If I am able to provide any further details please do ask and I will see what I can do.

 

One further thing, I always remember as a child my grandad stored this sword above a cupboard hanging off at an angle. He always told me it had to be pointed in a certain direction (Japan?) or a demon would come out. Is there some sort of real myth with this or just a story a grandad told his grandson?

 

Thank you once again.

 

Andy G

 

[vajo]

I don't know, but i feel the fuchi on the pictures is a negative from a genuine.

[blackandamber]

I don't know, but i feel the fuchi on the pictures is a negative from a genuine.

Thank you for your response but sorry to sound ignorant, what does that mean as I have no knowledge of swords and am just trying to learn.

 

Andy G

[Ed Harbulak]

Hi Andy,

The fuchi is the brass colored reinforcing ring next to the hand guard. It keeps the wooden handle from possibly splitting. I don't see a thing wrong with it. It's original and obviously has been a part of the sword since before your grandfather obtained it in 1946. From the pictures you provided so far, the blade appears to have been shortened from an older and  probably longer blade for use during WWII. The condition of the blade doesn't look too bad, although I'd be a little concerned about what appears to be a crack in the tang area. But, since you aren't (or shouldn't) be using the sword to do any cutting with, and it was considered good enough to be used as a weapon by the Japanese during the war, don't worry about the crack. I'm sure more people will give you additional information although some more detailed pictures of the bare blade as Bruce suggested would help. As for evil spirits possibly coming out of the scabbard depending on how the blade was hanging, I'd say it was your grandfather's way of keeping you from playing with it when you were young. All in all, it's a nice remembrance from your grandfather.

[blackandamber]

Hi Andy,

The fuchi is the brass colored reinforcing ring next to the hand guard. It keeps the wooden handle from possibly splitting. I don't see a thing wrong with it. It's original and obviously has been a part of the sword since before your grandfather obtained it in 1946. From the pictures you provided so far, the blade appears to have been shortened from an older and  probably longer blade for use during WWII. The condition of the blade doesn't look too bad, although I'd be a little concerned about what appears to be a crack in the tang area. But, since you aren't (or shouldn't) be using the sword to do any cutting with, and it was considered good enough to be used as a weapon by the Japanese during the war, don't worry about the crack. I'm sure more people will give you additional information although some more detailed pictures of the bare blade as Bruce suggested would help. As for evil spirits possibly coming out of the scabbard depending on how the blade was hanging, I'd say it was your grandfather's way of keeping you from playing with it when you were young. All in all, it's a nice remembrance from your grandfather.

 

Thank you very much for your response, it really is much appreciated. I think you are right about the evil spirits story, it is however something that has always stuck with me and a nice memory of my grandad.

I will take some more pictures of the blade as suggested and post them on here once I have them.

 

Thanks again.

[vajo]

Ed compare the blossoms. But what i know.

[Dave R]

 The fuchi looks ok to me. You can get a bit of variation in them, due to different manufacturers producing them. What is nice about it is that it is a cherry blossom pattern rather than the stipple pattern so often seen on the leather tab locking type.

[Bruce Pennington]

Chris,

 

I see what you mean, and I've never seen on made that way, cool!!! It look authentic though, and I'd say the "family" blades like this are almost always in customized fittings, so this doesn't actually surprise me.

 

Andy,

 

It's clearly an older blade. Pics of the full blade, handle off, will help the guys that study the older blades, and a measurement of the blade back, straight line, from tip to tang-notch (where the brass sleeve rests) is often helpful for dating.

[Ed Harbulak]

Hi Chris, 

If by "negative from a genuine" you mean the blossom appears to be sunk down rather than raised, it definitely looks raised on my monitor. Sometimes the lighting can play tricks with the way things appear. It looks normal and genuine to me. But, perhaps I'm not seeing the blossom the way you are.

[Windy]

Hi Chris, 

If by "negative from a genuine" you mean the blossom appears to be sunk down rather than raised, it definitely looks raised on my monitor. Sometimes the lighting can play tricks with the way things appear. It looks normal and genuine to me. But, perhaps I'm not seeing the blossom the way you are.

I think Chris was talking about it’s slightly unusual design.

Here is what is considered to be the regular pattern (I think?!). This is my Kojima Kunifusa in Type 98 fittings.

[PNSSHOGUN]

I think it may look odd because of the leather seppa strap, usually we see a locking latch or the retaining strap enclose the fuchi rather than a completely bare and intact one.

[vajo]

Maybe I'm totaly wrong. The cherry blossoms and leafs had no details at that fuchi. The tsuba blossoms looks very crude. The swords nakago is crude, there are no stamps, the file marks go in every direction and that is not valuable gendai mumei sword. The kabutogane has very less details. Thats my personal opinion.

[reeder]

The Fuchi is just fine, the tsuba is just fine, the nakago looks more wwii lower end to me rather than an “clearly older blade”, the kabutogane is just fine. It’s a genuine wartime artifact handed down by your grandfather, enjoy it as such. Vajo has a habit of making up issues with other people’s swords that don’t truly exist.

[Grey Doffin]

I also suspect this is a war time blade, not older.  I think it was shortened (crudely) to hide the flaw under the tsuka and habaki.

Grey

[Windy]

Maybe I'm totaly wrong. The cherry blossoms and leafs had no details at that fuchi. The tsuba blossoms looks very crude. The swords nakago is crude, there are no stamps, the file marks go in every direction and that is not valuable gendai mumei sword. The kabutogane has very less details. Thats my personal opinion.

I have two Type 98s. One has nicer bits than the other. So it’s not impossible to believe that the quality ranged greatly?

My two examples, look at the difference in the detail....

[vajo]

Matt yours first one look like very detailed and well made. Such i expect from a Japanese work. 

The second is different. 

[dwmc]

I also suspect this is a war time blade, not older.  I think it was shortened (crudely) to hide the flaw under the tsuka and habaki.

Grey

 

I agree with Grey. Moved the nakago up (hastily) to press sword into service. Not sure why they would have kept this blade with this sort of flaw. Possibly war time urgency...

[Shamsy]

Matt yours first one look like very detailed and well made. Such i expect from a Japanese work.

The second is different.

I wasn't planning to comment since 98s are really not my thing. But thought I'd add this in:

 

The Japanese did typically excel in craftsmanship, but there are plenty of examples of cruder work. Have a read through this thread and check some of the links.

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/21190-seki-inspection-tag-on-combat-saya/page-1

 

The swords with the paper Seki labels mentioned in F&G are often in very poor fittings and crude blades, usually unmarked bar painted kanji.

 

As a private purchase item we need to accept that levels of quality and fittings may vastly vary. Each piece should be judged individually.

 

More reliable means such as fit, patina and other signs of age need to be employed when judging the minefield that is 98 collecting.