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Ooitame
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Ooitame Mentor

Ooitame

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Hello all, I am thinking about trying laido, and who knows maybe tameshagiri. But there are quite a few choices for blades. What are your thoughts on a modern work yet still somewhat traditonal... at around 500$, or should I get a real yet semi beat up older nihonto for about the same price?

AndyMcK Community Regular

AndyMcK

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Eric, if I understand you correctly, you are about to begin the training? If that is so, you are not in a hurry with acquiring sharp blade to train with. Learn technique on both before attempting to use sharp one. You will also learn from your sensei what kind of blade you will need if he is worth his salt.

 

Good luck on your training!

 

-Antti

  • Like 3
ROKUJURO Grand Master

ROKUJURO

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Eric,

in case you are 'thinking about trying IAIDO' (and perhaps TAMESHIGIRI - not tameshagiri), you need a competent teacher first. IAIDO is not practiced with sharp blades unless you are a highly graded master of the art.

Ooitame Mentor

Ooitame

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Hi Lewis, I am curious as to that wakazashi cutting ability as his grand father was ryo wazamano and his uncle sajo wazamano; maybe it passed down. In addition, that blade was made when the smith was head of that school for ~25 years. So it might have the ability, but it wont see that kind of abuse... I will be left forever curious.

 

Hi Jean, you are correct.

TheGermanBastard

TheGermanBastard

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It may be just a little swing for Eric but a great step forward for the sword community to see how well this great smith performes in cutting. We need more first hand research from brave enthusiasts like Eric. I look forward to hearing your resulst on the potential Wazamono level your your sword. Please keep us posted.

Ooitame Mentor

Ooitame

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Hey Jean, that is a good question. I know there are many types of cuts. I will try to describe the best I can, nagamich 1 is reported to have a sword cut through three bodies, so I can assume this is an horizaontal abdomen cut, ninodo. To have a family style comparison cut would be most appropriate, I suppose that would do. Rio kuruma, being the ultimate test. However, what I consider a true test is th 45degree angle cut through the collar bone, ribs, sternum, and spine, okesa. As that is a natural draw and strike motion, assuming arms and hands arent viable... I suppose the other two could work if you turn the saya on its side, and you acquire the muscle memory.

Jean

Jean

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In fact, my question is: who estabished the test to classify smiths in different wazamono categories and what was the methodology?

 

In fact, to be thorough, the methodology should include a certain numbers of swords by the same smith

Ooitame Mentor

Ooitame

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Hi Ken, agreed. I have experience with the bokken and the dulled edge sword. Will seek proper guidance for shinken.

Jean, I am not really clear on these intracacies. I believe you are right as a number of swords from the same smith were used. 

TheGermanBastard

TheGermanBastard

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So you will want to buy / obtain more swords from this smith before your proceed with your cutting tests for better first hand comparision. Best buy also a Saijo Wazamono blade for best comparison. Please keep up the great work and keep us posted,

PNSSHOGUN Grand Master

PNSSHOGUN

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In fact, my question is: who estabished the test to classify smiths in different wazamono categories and what was the methodology?

 

In fact, to be thorough, the methodology should include a certain numbers of swords by the same smith

https://markussesko.com/2014/07/03/tameshigiri-the-history-and-development-of-Japanese-sword-testing/

 

Excellent book that goes into detail about all of this Jean.

 

Wazamono was granted after a certain number of blades by the smith passed cutting tests and then decided by the Yamada family. If I recall 10/10 blades that executed difficult cuts perfectly by the same smith resulted in Saijo-O-Wazamono ranking, or something along those lines.

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Jean

Jean

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So Eric won’t be able to perform a significative cutting test. He is not a professional tester as Yamada family testers

and has not at his disposition several blades of the same smith nor the corpses (I hope :) ) necessary for the tests.

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vajo Grand Master

vajo

Posted
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Hello all, I am thinking about trying laido, and who knows maybe tameshagiri. But there are quite a few choices for blades. What are your thoughts on a modern work yet still somewhat traditonal... at around 500$, or should I get a real yet semi beat up older nihonto for about the same price?

A real old Nihonto for some playing around with a sword? Funny. I would advise to buy a chinese repro for that and not something with a cultural worth. For my eyes it is always funny to see westerness people playing samurai and cutting waterbottles and other things ????

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Guido Grand Master

Guido

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For my eyes it is always funny to see westerness people playing samurai and cutting waterbottles ...

 

As we all know, commoners in Edo period Japan were not allowed to carry and use swords, so many of them threw water bottles to fight samurai. This was so widely practiced, that many martial art schools included suitōgiri 水筒斬り (i.e. water bottle cutting) in their curriculum as a means of defense. However, when Tokugawa Ienari 徳川家斉 made bottle deposits mandatory in Kansei 寛政 6 (1794), the resulting financial constraints put a stop to it for throwers and throwees alike.

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vajo Grand Master

vajo

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Rofl..

When you see the videos of "cold steel" cutting pig heads on youtube then you think they are all crazy and not normal.

PNSSHOGUN Grand Master

PNSSHOGUN

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Cutting pig carcass is actually as close as we can get beyond using cadavers.

 

There are also the extremely realistic medical training "Simbodies" but I think those cost thousands of dollars. Maybe if there are millionaire collectors here they can conduct it, but I will stick to Tatami and Bamboo and modern made swords for the foreseeable future.

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martin hornak Rookie

martin hornak

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Well the price for shinken or even showato that you could perfectly practice tameshigiri or even iaido because many showato even non traditional are perfect functionaly for cuting or very good balanced for iaido, or shinshinto swords are often used for this cuting practice together with iaido ...

but for that low price ??? no chance , even showato or some shinshinto swords are cheap , but not that cheap.

you have to evaluate your level higher :)

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