1944/45 Gunto Copper Fittings

[kyushukairu]

I have a late war pattern gunto in my possession with copper kabuto-gane, menuki, and tsuba, and just read that these usually have have iron fittings. In Military and Civil Swords and Dirks, Fuller and Gregory claim 'only one copper-mounted version has been reported' of the 1944/45 officer's sword pattern. As Fuller and Gregory's book was published 20 years ago, I was wondering whether this has changed. That is, are copper fittings still considered rare?

[vajo]

Is it a copper tsuba for sure? Take a look in the nakago ana.

[kyushukairu]

Definitely copper, Chris

[Bruce Pennington]

Kyle, yours looks like one I have so I checked, and mine has the same copper color. I haven’t tried to test it to see if it’s actually copper. Mine has the same plastic same’ and saya color.

[Bruce Pennington]

This is an old pic of the tsuba. When I get time, I'll take a file to the nakago ana and see what I find.

[IJASWORDS]

Guys I tested all my copper looking pattern 3 copper "looking" fittings with a fridge magnet, all were attracted. So copper plated and painted iron. Don't use a file!!!

[IJASWORDS]

Sorry, Type 3, or marine landing, what ever you call them.

[vajo]

I tested now (magnet) all my 5 Type 3 Gendaito (4 Star Stamp, one Nagamitsu). Fittings and Tsuba are all iron no copper.

Maybe it has to do something with the quality of blades and fittings? What blades you have?

 

@ Bruce

you have no plastic same. It is celluloid made from "guncotton" and camphor.

 

[Dave R]

Guys I tested all my copper looking pattern 3 copper "looking" fittings with a fridge magnet, all were attracted. So copper plated and painted iron. Don't use a file!!!

 

Makes a lot of sense, copper plate to give a traditional appearance, but with a cheaper metal. Also improves corrosion resistance. I think most of the brass mounts on the 94 and 98 are copper plated as well, so little needed doing in the way of production changes.

[reeder]

This is the copper fitting variation referenced by Fuller & Gregory. There’s also pictures of one in Dawson’s book.

 

Edit: Added higher res pictures

[Bruce Pennington]

@ Bruce

you have no plastic same. It is celluloid made from "guncotton" and camphor.

 

That's interesting Chris! I had never heard what it's made of, thanks!

 

This is the copper fitting variation referenced by Fuller & Gregory. There’s also pictures of one in Dawson’s book.

 

Edit: Added higher res pictures

Thanks for the pics Brandon. So my stuff looks like the steel tsuba, coated with other stuff then, because they clearly don't look like the coopper in those pics. I'll try the magnet later today, but I suspect it will work out like Chris' experience.

 

Thanks guys! Interesting discussion and discovery.

[vajo]

Your welcome Bruce.

Plastic same sounds so cheap in my ears. Celluloid was a revolution. The last product in our time what is made from celluloid is the ping-pong ball. 

 

Brandon i thougt the last stage type was made with brass parts. And the saya was binding with Japanese-paper.

 

Btw. A nice one. I search such a Type 3 in that yellow ito and black saya.

 

Type3 are the most "sexy" swords of that period. They look incredible reduced and pure. A perfect weapon.

 

Best 

 

Chris

[reeder]

Fuller & Gregory and Dawson list the mounts as potential prototype mounts, not last stage.  Mine has a 1943 star stamped blade.  The authors do not list the date/maker of their pictured swords so we're stuck with one data point for now, unless someone has or has seen another.

[vajo]

For me Ohmura sans work is important in that case. He says last stage.

[J Reid]

Guys... never do irreparable damage to your swords just to "confirm" something. Find another way... As found condition and/or restoration only, right?   

[reeder]

For me Ohmura sans work is important in that case. He says last stage.

Ohmura has 3 listed, 2 star stamped dated 1943 & 1944, and the third dated 1943. Maybe last stage, maybe not. Most examples have mid-war gendai, doesn’t sound too much like last stage to me. But what do I know?

 

Guys... never do irreparable damage to your swords just to "confirm" something. Find another way... As found condition and/or restoration only, right? 

 

not sure what you’re referencing, replied to wrong thread?

[J Reid]

This is an old pic of the tsuba. When I get time, I'll take a file to the nakago ana and see what I find.

 

^^

[Bruce Pennington]

Ok, I checked - the tsuba is steel!