Nakago-Ana Form

[svarsh]

I recently acquired a Yoshiro tsuba with an unusual nakago-ana for the time and school. What may cause such a form? I wonder whether the opening was altered later, and if yes, for what reason? Or the tsuba was mounted on something else rather than katana?

Any thoughts?

Sergei

[Alex A]

I can only speculate Sergei, but perhaps your tsuba was fitted to an armour smashing type of weapon at some time.

 

Someone else may have a better idea than me.

[Henry Wilson]

Considering the box shape of both the kozuka-ana, I would say that the nakago-ana has been styled in their image for whatever reason. Maybe as a presentation piece? There is a certain Namban feel to the nakago-ana too

[ROKUJURO]

It is not rare to see TSUBA that have been repurposed in later times for decorative reasons. I have one that has probably served as lock-plate for a door.

[Alex A]

Hard to judge from that photo Sergei, whats the inside of the nakago-ana like ?

 

From that pic, still looks crisp, as though it was adjusted more recently then I first thought.

 

Some patina loss too, around that area.

[Stephen]

mounted on Yari?

[PNSSHOGUN]

mounted on Yari?

If not decorative I think Yari or Naginata might be reasonable.

[JohnTo]

Hi Sergei,

Can't really say why the nagako ana is that odd shape, other than to speculate that it was mounted on a pole arm, jitte etc.

 

I have become iterested in Yoshiro mon sukashi tsuba, having recently acquired one.  From the examples that I have seen it seems that the Yoshiro group spit into the Kaga and Bizen groups.  Unfortunately most of the works are unsigned so it is difficult to judge the validity of the assignments of tsuba that I have seen (maily in books and internet).  There does seem to be two styles of hitsu ana, the usual kudzuka/kogai pair and the rectangular shaped ones, as your example.  I wonder if this is a kantei point, the rectangular ones often seem to have been ascribed to the Bizen group.

The other interest that I have is the way that the brass mon have been inlayed.  Your excellent photo shows that the mon inlay is a solid block of brass that has been pierced after inserting into the inlay.  This appears to be the most common way.  In my example (which I shall post when I have got all my thoughts together) brass rings have been inserted into the hole and then the carved mon pieces hammered into place.

regards, John

[kissakai]

Hi

You can see the original shape from the inserts at the top and bottom of the nakago

Difficult to say why is was opened out but probably one of the above suggestions

[Peter Bleed]

Sergei,

A very nice tsuba which has generated a good discussion. Thank you

Let me add three more possible explanations to your squarish nakago-ana.

1. It may for some reason been mounted upside down. Traces of this are not apparent but there is clear evidence that there was lots of work done to the ana.

2. Similarly, I wonder if it might have been mounted on a tachi.

3. Finally, is there any possibility that this guard spent some spent in China? Might it have been put on a Continental sword?

Peter

[SalaMarcos]

I think that the size of the tsuba is a very important point to determinate if this was for a yari or naginata. As the picture shows, it seems a normal size Yoshiro tsuba: 8,6cm (large) 8,6cm (wide) 3mm (thickness) and arround 147gr weight. In that case is not possible to consider a yari or naginata tsuba, as allways this kind of tsuba are very small (if exists).
I think that the most probable hyphothesis is that the nakago ana, was carved just for decoration for a western present, without any other meaning. Even it's very posible that after that, some western mounted it in a nihontô just for a wallhanger decoration, even when the tsuba doesn't fit and moves arround the blade, because those kind of things doesn't disturb so much the XIX western colectors.
If there is another hyphotesis...maybe is to enlarge the nakago ana for a western weapon...but I think is more proble the first theory. 
 

[Alex A]

I think that the size of the tsuba is a very important point to determinate if this was for a yari or naginata. As the picture shows, it seems a normal size Yoshiro tsuba: 8,6cm (large) 8,6cm (wide) 3mm (thickness) and arround 147gr weight. In that case is not possible to consider a yari or naginata tsuba, as allways this kind of tsuba are very small (if exists).

I think that the most probable hyphothesis is that the nakago ana, was carved just for decoration for a western present, without any other meaning. Even it's very posible that after that, some western mounted it in a nihontô just for a wallhanger decoration, even when the tsuba doesn't fit and moves arround the blade, because those kind of things doesn't disturb so much the XIX western colectors.

If there is another hyphotesis...maybe is to enlarge the nakago ana for a western weapon...but I think is more proble the first theory. 

 

 

Always the odd exception to a rule, maybe.

 

 

I have a tsuba here from the Muromachi period, still to this day I'm not sure what it had been sat on before it went back to use on a regular sword, measures 8.7cm.

 

Possibly used on a thick naginata or a type of armour smasher, a bit like a regular sword, but shorter, straighter, with a thick nakago.I forget the name. Rare.

 

We can but speculate.

[svarsh]

Tachi and naginata seem the most probable  versions to me. I forgot to tell: 

Size: diameter 81.4 mm, thickness 4.7 mmat seppa-dai, 4.0 mm at rim.

 

I also forgot to tell the provenance: Pabst Collection. So, we may exclude some suggestions as unlikely.

Thanks everyone!

Sergei

[Bugyotsuji]

SalaMarcos, there is a Nagamaki/naginata in the Uesugi Jinja with a large kiku-sukashi tsuba fitted to it.

 

Quote: “In that case is not possible to consider a yari or naginata tsuba, as allways this kind of tsuba are very small (if exists).”

[Bugyotsuji]

Personally I agree that the simplest answer is that after the Haitorei at the beginning of Meiji it was altered to fit a Kabuto/Hachi-wari. Later someone thinking that it was a bit of a waste of a good tsuba, separated them. Occam’s Razor?

[Bugyotsuji]

PS from our flexible friend Wiki:

While Occam's razor suggests that the simplest explanation is the most likely (implying in medicine that diagnostician should assume a single cause for multiple symptoms), Hickam's dictum is commonly stated: "Patients can have as many diseases as they damn well please". The principle is attributed to John Hickam, MD.

[Alex A]

I like Peters idea on a change in the way a tsuba is mounted, must explain a few with this odd shape.

 

Interesting thread.

[Robin]

Personally I agree that the simplest answer is that after the Haitorei at the beginning of Meiji it was altered to fit a Kabuto/Hachi-wari. Later someone thinking that it was a bit of a waste of a good tsuba, separated them. Occam’s Razor?

I also think a hachi-ware is the most likely reason.

 

Robin

[Bugyotsuji]

Kabuto-wari 兜割　( =Hachi-wari 鉢割)  https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%9C%E5%89%B2

[zanilu]

Could not be that this tsuba was used as a keyhole cover plate as happened to some in the end of 19th century? 

Even though there are no nail/screw holes on the side of the "nakago ana"?

 

Just an afterthought.

 

Luca

[Alex A]

I stumbled across some pics I saved from the NMB a good while ago, I cant see the OP,s tsuba being sat on any of them, too nice, but who knows.

 

I cant seem to find the thread where these pics came from, but here they are anyway. If I remember correctly they came by way of  Eric T, not sure which book it is though.

[Bazza]

I think the book is "Stone's Glossary" and it shows again that even for hachiwari the tsuba were small.  I like the OP's tsuba and would have it, wondering perhaps forever why the nakago ana is as it is.

 

BaZZa.

[Alex A]

Cheers Bazza, picked one up from Amazon, 694 ages, £15............only browsed through it for now, but a good buy.

[ROKUJURO]

This happens sometimes to a TSUBA





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