Shibuichi Tsuba

[Ford Hallam]

Adam,

 

try re-reading my posts more slowly....and please stop misrepresenting what I've said. The only one being misled by your strawman arguments seems to be you.

 

I trust my posts are clear enough and self explanatory to any other interested members and thanks to the kind and amusing responses 😎 Glad to be of service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[roger dundas]

I will add no more than this to the above conversation except to say to Adam that your challenge to Ford certainly bore fruit but your method  was less than diplomatic and  you seemed reluctant to concede much kudos to Ford in something  he obviously is well versed and learned in, probably one of if not the best.

Don't p... the man off Adam, his input here is outstanding.

 

Roger 2

[Babu]

  On 10/6/2020 at 2:18 PM, Ford Hallam said:

Perhaps I ought to add at this point in the discussion that if your suspected shibuichi pieces are a chocolate brown colour then they are most probably not shibuichi .

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Firstly there is no need to insult it shows a certain lack of intelligence and a shallow self indulgent personality .

 

What have I misenterpreted from the above statement?

[Babu]

  On 10/6/2020 at 2:18 PM, Ford Hallam said:

Perhaps I ought to add at this point in the discussion that if your suspected shibuichi pieces are a chocolate brown colour then they are most probably not shibuichi but rather either nigurome (copper with the addition of shirome, itself a spiese, or refining byproduct, containing arsenic and antimony, and which tends towards a reddish brown) or a copper alloy with literally only 1 to 4 percent silver present, which would fall outside of the generic shibuichi group. Of course, an accurate identification of an alloy would only really be possible with a chemical analysis.

 

This brown patinated alloy has previously not been documented but is essentially a sort of shakudo but for the substitution of silver for gold. I actually predicted this alloy might be more commonplace over 20 years ago when I had a piece by Shoami Katsuyoshi analysed and which contained one such sample. I then found more samples in the surveys I carried out at the V&A. It would appear to me that, based on the quality of the pieces I've identified, that is may have been a cheaper substitute for regular shibuichi, when used as the ground material, given the very small amount of silver used. I would suggest this particular alloy goes unnoticed often when it shows up as a small detail in an iroe composition, like as a staff or other 'wooden' object.

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I know that brown you are talking about as representative of wood items and I agree it's more like a shakudo than shibuichi it's thick and not transparent. 

As an example of the brown I refer to see the images below. 

All of these have been catalogued as shibuichi. 

Thank you Adam 

 

[Brian]

🥱

trying to debate colours on the internet, where everyone's screen and calibration is different and everyone sees it differently.

* sigh *

Can we stop this silliness?

[Babu]

I'd love to Brian, but I'm trying to fathom why on earth Ford attacked me.

I'm totally confused

[Brian]

That may be something you need to work on then.

[Babu]

Ah understood, you don't know either.

Well let's hope Ford deigns to explain why he felt the need to react that way.