Kunikane Swords

[Vermithrax16]

I have found several Kunikane swords with masame hada work that interest me via web and research material. What generation (or generations) were the best at the work? From my studies it's the sendai, but want to know more. Thanks for any help.

 

(Yes, I did reach out to Peter B. on this, but maybe DM's are messed up or he is busy).

[Stephen]

Nope he just dont answer.

[Vermithrax16]

Nope he just dont answer.

Well then, I would like the boards input. 

[nagamaki - Franco]

If you haven't seen this already, http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/8252-kunikane/

[Jean]

Sendai is a Japanese region, I hope you don’t mix up with sandai (3rd generation)

 

http://www.sho-shin.com/shinto-sendai.html

[Vermithrax16]

Thanks Franco, yes, been through that thread a few times.

 

Haha, exactly Jean

[Jean]

The answer to your question

 

http://www.sho-shin.com/smiths1c.htm

 

Search Kunikane

[Peter Bleed]

Jeremiah, please forgive my tardy reply, I have not been too busy to respond. In fact, I am trying to figure this retirement thing out – and it seems to be winning. Indeed, I got your message, and  have thought  about it, but I did not immediately respond because – frankly – I do not have an easy answer. Indeed, I do NOT think there IS  an answer.

The genealogy of the Kunikane line is well established and quite clear. A line of smiths held that name and practiced the methods of a “school” for something like 300 years. The founder was a skilled innovator who was followed by a son, who had two sons. One of them became the 3^rd (yes yes, the Sandai)  and the second became the 4^th. Toward the end, that tight community fell on some  short lifespans and was continued by a series of smiths who (at east to my understanding) seem to have been adopted in from a variety of other Sendai sword makers. The 10^th generation went down to Edo and worked with Masahide, but died young  (I hate it when that happens). The 13^th made a good run, but then the whole modernization thing happened and the bottom fell out of swords.  My suspicious is that number 13  was largely (but NOT solely) responsible for putting signatures of the first, second, or third generation on otherwise unsigned “Sendai” blades. These are so-called “Ato-mei”. Most of these have masame hada, but some don’t fit the mold.

So can we answer Jeremiah’s  question, “who made the best masame”? My response is that I think we will NEVER know.  

Given all the suspicious blades with Kunikane signatures, over the past 50 years a LOT of signed Kunikane swords have had their signatures removed. Anything that looks at all suspicious gets unsigned. Bam! There seems to be nothing surreptitious about this. The work is being done explicitly by responsible craftsmen and dealers acknowledge that the work has been done.

In this situation it is useful to recall the observation of  Hamada Shoji, a Living National Treasure potter  who said, “I don’t mind copiers, The best of their work will be attributed  to me and worst on mine will be assigned to them.”

We can only assume that there are 2 reasons for removing the signature. Either the INSCRIPTION is suspicious - the handwriting or placement  is wrong -  OR the work is just not up to the supposed standard of the big men (1,2, or 3). Thus, a sword with excellent masame but  a slightly hinky signature, becomes a mumei. I suppose the reverse could also happen – nice name, but so-so hada….

Finally, it is important to remember that the Kunikane were not the only producers of strident masame. Norikatsu down  in Mito seems  to have done serious masame.

Once again, the bottom line is “buy the sword, not the signature – or lack thereof”. If you find a masame sword that you like, my advice is, “go for it.”

Peter

[Vermithrax16]

Hi Peter,

First off, congrats on retirement! Hope you are settling in ok.

 

Thanks for the well crafted answer. If I get a chance at one, I have some info to use.

[Peter Bleed]

Jeremiah,

Thanks for the response. It is frustrating to work up a piece for the NMB only to have it apparently read but ignored.Maybe I have a knack for presenting ideas and objects that others don't care about.

Let me go a bit farther about masame. Basically, I think it is hard for most of us to SEE masame - especially in koto swords. It is possible that masame needs to be polished appropriately to be really apparent. If a polisher does not "bring it out" it may be hard to see. Furthermore, koto masame may be essentially different from the straight grained steel of the shinto era. At the last Chicago show I brought a freind's sword that I was just pretty sure was a candidate for a Hosho blade. I begged opinions from lots of "senior collectors", but NOBODY called attention to the masa. Truth to tell, there was some itame mixed in there and that is what people saw until I pointed out the straight grain.(Glad there will be a real shinsa next year!)

I think some Sendai Kunikane smiths may have used something like contrastive steeL I have a 12th tanto that seems to fit that suspicion.

Peter

[Vermithrax16]

Jeremiah,

Thanks for the response. It is frustrating to work up a piece for the NMB only to have it apparently read but ignored.Maybe I have a knack for presenting ideas and objects that others don't care about.

Let me go a bit farther about masame. Basically, I think it is hard for most of us to SEE masame - especially in koto swords. It is possible that masame needs to be polished appropriately to be really apparent. If a polisher does not "bring it out" it may be hard to see. Furthermore, koto masame may be essentially different from the straight grained steel of the shinto era. At the last Chicago show I brought a freind's sword that I was just pretty sure was a candidate for a Hosho blade. I begged opinions from lots of "senior collectors", but NOBODY called attention to the masa. Truth to tell, there was some itame mixed in there and that is what people saw until I pointed out the straight grain.(Glad there will be a real shinsa next year!)

I think some Sendai Kunikane smiths may have used something like contrastive steeL I have a 12th tanto that seems to fit that suspicion.

Peter

I have spent quite some time reading your entries in any thread Kunikane was mentioned and I most certainly appreciate you taking the time to respond to this one. It's an important topic to me. Thank you.

 

You are correct, sometimes I see a blade description that states there is masame and I am hard pressed to see much of anything. Itame mixed in makes it very hard. Polish matters I would think, but also I am always surprised how poor many pictures are of swords, even from known sellers. 

 

Yamato Hosho is a dream sword, but probably not in this lifetime due to extreme cost of the swords.

 

Kunikane line has excellent examples, and Norikatsu/Tokkatsu are very good as well. Naotane made some great masame works, but again, cost becomes an issue.

 

Thanks for the response.

[Wayben]

Every thread is better with pictures so I'll take this opportunity to try to add a few.  This is a mumei Wakizashi  attributed to Sendai Kunikane, NBTHK Hozon.

 

 

[Vermithrax16]

Great pictures Wayne!!!!!!  You captured the hada very well, what a great piece. What is the motohaba of the sword? Looks beefy!

 

Thanks for the pictures, love it.

[Wayben]

Thanks, it's a nice sized blade, 31mm at the machi.

[Jean]

Pictures of a few masame swords:

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/9453-new-sword-what-is-it/?hl=%2Bhosho.+%2Bkanekiyo&do=findComment&comment=95805

[Brian]

Peter, your writings are FAR from ignored, trust me. I know hundreds read and appreciate them. Just many of us don't have anything constructive to add, so we rather just read and learn.