Na Stamp Showa-To

[vajo]

I have a very nice showa-to type 98 with a "na" stamp.

 

What is the na stamp? Is it a controll stamp or indicates it a showa-to blade?

 

 

(the drops are choji. I was looking at the blade oil it and then the sun comes out - taking photos).

 

 

Chris

[Bruce Pennington]

Chris,

 

It is the inspector stamp for the Nagoya Army Arsenal. It means it passes inspection, but it also means the blade is not a traditionallly made blade. It's very beautiful, by the way! But probably made with non-Japanese steel, or with hydraulic hammer; something like that.

 

You probably know the date, but in case you don't, it's July 1943.

[vajo]

Thanks Bruce. There is no other stamp on it. It has less or no big activity between itame hada and suguha hamon so i think its oil quenched? No problem for me it is honestly a showa-to. It is one of my oldest swords in collection so i didn't care much about it. Today i take some time for the older ones to care and as the winter sun came into the room i see the beautifull hamon shining and saw that there is only this small stamp.

 

I was going for October 1943 (thanks again).

[Bruce Pennington]

It is definitely pretty. I never discount showato. They can be made with just as much care and craftsmanship, but simply out of another form of steel.

 

Yeah, I still get the numbers mixed up and have to look them up, sometimes! This one is "七", though, which is 7, so July.

 

If you bring the smith name over to the "Translations" forum http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/15-translation-assistance/

You'll get a quick translation. The first one is "Kane" but I'm not good at these and don't recognize the bottom one.

[vajo]

The Swordsmith is Kojima Kanenori from Gifu.

 

Ryujin has a Gendaito Kanenori with "Na" Stamp

http://www.ryujinswords.com/kanenori.htm

 

Hmm,...

 

some pictures more to judge.

 

 

[IJASWORDS]

Chris, I know what you are thinking, that you think that you have a "real" GENDAI TO. You don't believe it is machine made. I would be more convinced if it had a STAR STAMP, indicating the use of TAMAHAGANE. There is every chance it is made from steel, and hand forged, and oil quenched. BUT, very hard to identify from photos. I have and had many KANENORI and it looks like what I described. A GENDAI KANENORI is very rare, and a good one quite expensive. Your sword is a very nice package, and I would do more research on how he identified his GENDAI swords, not just by reading "for sale" advertisements. I will take a closer look at some of mine, and if I find some thing that helps you, I will post some photos. Neil.   

[vajo]

Great Neil. I hope for some information. I was taken this sword today on a german internet auction plattform to rise some money (to buy another). After the pictures today in the sunlight, i didn't want to sell it for a extrem low price. If it is might be a gendaito i will hold it. I must say i never had take a deeper look on that sword. What a shame. 

[vajo]

If the blade is a oil quenched, european steel forged, machine made blade than it is a very, very fine example of the quality of showa-to.

Kanenori made low to medium grade showa-to blades. I hope veryone who looked on the pictures is according to me that this blade is above medium?

 

Best

Chris

[PNSSHOGUN]

High grade showato. You sometimes see these exceptional examples from "average" smiths pop up, a special order perhaps?

[IJASWORDS]

Hi Chris, I spent time today looking at my KANENORIs. Photos attached of one of my closest. Blade, signature, stamp and date are similar. My blade also looks nice, and at first look you could assume GENDAI TO. BUT close inspection shows what John just pointed out, a "high grade SHOWA TO", and well made.

Some time ago, I wrote a piece on collecting WW2 GUNTO. In that I wrote that every collection should have, or start with a KANENORI, because they are not expensive, prolific, are very well made and very representative of the best SHOWA swordsmiths of that time. Probably the next step up would be EMURA, NAGAMITSU, TERUHIDE and MASAKIYO although some may argue about my choices.

Hope I didn't disappoint you, but in reality, you have a very nice collectable SHIN GUNTO. Neil.

[vajo]

Hi Neil,

 

thank you very much for showing. I also come to the conclusion its not Gendaito. I have some real ones, like Akihisa, Yoshitada, Munemitsu and of course a Nagamitsu. All in Type3 mounts.

 

Yesterday i was so surprised from the bright shining hamon that i must post the pictures here. It shows me that every sword has it secrets. This Kanenori has hided it behind bad lights over the years.

 

Btw, how much is the nagasa of your Kanenori. Mine is 66,5 cm.

Best

Chris 

[Stephen]

im sure i remember a star stamp blade with the na stamp, anyone else?

[vajo]

Yes Stephen I'am. There are so many secrets in that Gunto theme.

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 11/16/2017 at 3:44 PM, Stephen said:

im sure i remember a star stamp blade with the na stamp, anyone else?

I've got a Star-stamped Kanetoshi with a Seki stamp. Haven't come across one with Na, personally. The Seki stamp is on the nakago mune, though.

[celt72]

My star-stamped Kanehide has a Na stamp right above the date.

[paul griff]

Hello Chris,

Nice sword ! I don't care what's on the nakago if I like it....I like it...! One of the best swords I have has a Showa stamp..23rd Generation Kanefusa...If you closed your eyes or hid the nakago you would think you were holding a masterpiece....A sword snob friend of mine wouldn't even hold it...Sarute and knot on your sword and it would shine !! Only my opinion of course and I am not buying for investment...Just enjoyment..

Regards,

Paul.

[vajo]

Thanks Paul for the kindly words. I will show to compare the hamon of 3 of my swords with suguha hamon. To see the difference.

 

1. Sadayuki (1813)

2. Masamitsu (1864)

3. Tsuguhira (around 1620)

4. Kanenori (1943)

 

 

You see the quality of a showa-to oil quenched, hammered, modern steel is very close. 

 

I think i will hold the sword in my collection.

 

Chris

[Windy]

  On 11/16/2017 at 1:57 PM, vajo said:

Hi Neil,

 

thank you very much for showing. I also come to the conclusion its not Gendaito. I have some real ones, like Akihisa, Yoshitada, Munemitsu and of course a Nagamitsu. All in Type3 mounts.

 

Yesterday i was so surprised from the bright shining hamon that i must post the pictures here. It shows me that every sword has it secrets. This Kanenori has hided it behind bad lights over the years.

 

Btw, how much is the nagasa of your Kanenori. Mine is 66,5 cm.

Best

Chris

 

My ‘41 Akihisa in Type 3 mounts has no stamps what so ever.

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 11/16/2017 at 9:26 PM, Windy said:

My ‘41 Akihisa in Type 3 mounts has no stamps what so ever.

That still could go either way. It is in a period when stamps were supposed to be used, both Showa and Star, and no one knows why blades came through unstamped.

[Stephen]

Id say thats not entirely true Bruce, many art swords made that would not require inspection. 

[paul griff]

Hello Chris,

Lovely blades....I do like the clean lines of a suguha hamon ( I'm not a very 'arty ' type ) .

Regards,

Paul..

[Windy]

  On 11/16/2017 at 10:12 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

That still could go either way. It is in a period when stamps were supposed to be used, both Showa and Star, and no one knows why blades came through unstamped.

Indeed. I have three gunto in my collection now, and the Akihisa is clearly the best blade. Has been declared gendaito by someone far more knowledgeable than me. I recall some info re the star stamp being a bit hit or miss in the early days?

 

I’m more surprised that my Kunifusa 98 has no Seki stamp, and my third sword is in fantastic 98 fittings with pierced tsuba and mon, but has no mei or armoury stamps?

[vajo]

My Akihisa is Dezember 1942 in Type3 mounts. It has a Star Stamp (RJT).

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 11/16/2017 at 10:17 PM, Stephen said:

Id say thats not entirely true Bruce, many art swords made that would not require inspection.

 

Steve,

From what I've read, it was law that all swords received a stamp if they were not gendaito:

 

“Tang stamps were introduced precisely because swordsmiths and collectors could not distinguish the best quality non-traditional swords (i.e. ‘mill steel’ gendaito) from traditionally made swords. It was discovered that, as a result, some smiths were forging replicas of older swords, giving them false signatures (gimei), and passing them off as the real thing. Several smiths were subsequently arrested. Amidst mounting concern, the government passed a law in 1933 requiring all swords that were non-traditional in any way to be marked with a tang stamp, although the actual stamp used was left to the manufacturer. These stamps should not however be confused with the smith’s personal seal or ‘kokuin’.

 

The system was not fully implemented until 1940. That means that there could be a fair number of swords of non-traditional manufacture not bearing tang stamps, of which some will be ‘mill steel’ gendaito. It would be fairly easy to differentiate between an oil-hardened sword and a traditionally made sword, even if the former lacked a tang stamp. However, there would probably be little or no chance of differentiating between a ‘mill steel’ gendaito and a tamahagane gendaito. It is not impossible that some examples have since received origami. Again, a togishi can remove a tang stamp so that it looks as if one was never there. Some smiths stamped their tangs very lightly, thus complying with the law, but making it easier for their customers to remove the stamp.

 

The legislation produced a profusion of stamps, ranging from sword factory stamps, to the stamps of sword sellers. The commonest are illustrated at the beginning of this essay. The best known of these is the well known Showa stamp. This is a general army stamp; contrary to received wisdom, it is not an arsenal mark. The earliest known example dates from 1940." From Ryujin Swords

 

Is it possible this law ONLY applied to swords made for the war effort?

[Shamsy]

At this time, would there have been a demand for swords outside of the war effort? I ask this rather naively, because I'm not sure what the civilian industry was like at the time. More a question Joe could answer I imagine.

[Bruce Pennington]

Hopefully someone with more understanding of the history in Japan during this era will jump in, but the article I cited above points out that even “collectors“ in the 1930s were struggling to determine the difference between traditional and nontraditionally made swords.

 

However from reading about the development of the military sword in this time, private orders of swords had fallen so badly that swordsmith as a profession had almost gone extinct. The military sword industry had to search to find enough skilled craftsmen that could make the old samurai style swords for them. And from there they rebuilt the industry.

[Stephen]

I was thinking shrine swords so your saying only showato huh?

[Bruce Pennington]

  On 11/17/2017 at 10:45 PM, Stephen said:

I was thinking shrine swords so your saying only showato huh?

Stephen, I'm really talking at the edge, or beyond, my experience/knowledge level on this. It would be interesting if anyone has a shrine sword with a Star stamp on it, or are they all without any stamps whatsoever.

[Stephen]

Ive never seem a Yasukuni sword with a stamp