mareo1912 Posted October 29, 2017 Report Posted October 29, 2017 Dear Members, I recently saw a very nice tanto for sale by Gassan Sadatoshi. I know that he's a well known smith and I really appreciate this blade, though it is hard for me to state a price for such a blade. What do you think is a reasonable price for such a piece? Thank you very much, Marco 2 Quote
lonely panet Posted October 29, 2017 Report Posted October 29, 2017 IMHO, and I do mean humble, my main focus as IJA swords BBUTUUTUT here we goooooo. just from what you have shown, i would say above $40k usd. what you have shown is as close to perfection as possible in a post showa piece of art but hey what would I know, I'm talking out my ass 1 Quote
vajo Posted October 29, 2017 Report Posted October 29, 2017 Wow what a stunning blade! The dragon looks like he's alive... Quote
Greg F Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 The horimono and the hada are top notch. Greg Quote
Lee Bray Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 Hamish is probably not far off the mark. A friend of mine looked at a bare blade daisho with no horimono and was given a preliminary quote of US$50,000. That was five years ago. Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 $40k for a tanto? Sorry, but no. A daito from a mukansa Smith is in the ballpark of $30k. With horimono, $40k-$50k and that’s commissioned, not second hand. The second hand market drops like a stone. For a gorgeous tanto - and it is excellent! - $10k to maybe (and this would be a HUGE stretch) $15k or there abouts and it would likely go only to a die hard Gassan collector. Otherwise it’ll sit for months/years at that price. Look at Yoshindo, Shoji, and Ono Sensei for comparison sakes. 5 Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 5:54 AM, Lee Bray said: Hamish is probably not far off the mark. A friend of mine looked at a bare blade daisho with no horimono and was given a preliminary quote of US$50,000. That was five years ago. Daisho, with the shoto being tanto or Wakizashi? Either way that had a daito and the market has soured on second hand shinsakuto in the last 5 years. Did your friend buy at $50k? I’m guessing not, since you said it was a quote. A seller can ask whatever they want for a sword(s) but that doesn’t mean they’ll sell at that price. 2 Quote
lonely panet Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 thanks for that Joe, (IMHO, guys for those who don't know Joe is a Gendai sword God, .... ok maybe demi-god hahahhahahha) i had never thought of second hand sale in this case, I was only going on what I had seen in the last DTI. (can only guess they were new and low miles hahah) I knew shinsakuto dropped in price, BBBUTT not that much, for a master smith like him is sad, a real shame but also a great chance to save money. thanks for setting me straight regards H 2 Quote
b.hennick Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 Joe seems to have nailed it. I thought that the suggested price was very high but I do not collect newer swords. I thought that you could get a decent quality blade in polish, papered (juyo) +/- koshirae for that amount of money. 1 Quote
Jean Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 https://www.aoijapan.com/tachi-kaga-ju-ryosanshi-masamine-saku-no 20,5 k$ 1 Quote
Okiiimo Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 The aoijapan Tachi example is priced at ~$270 per cm of nagasa. Therefore, the tanto in the OP is worth about $6-7k assuming it’s around 25cm or so. Maybe add a 10-20% premium for the horimono. Quote
Lee Bray Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 9:04 PM, SwordGuyJoe said: Daisho, with the shoto being tanto or Wakizashi? Either way that had a daito and the market has soured on second hand shinsakuto in the last 5 years. Did your friend buy at $50k? I’m guessing not, since you said it was a quote. A seller can ask whatever they want for a sword(s) but that doesn’t mean they’ll sell at that price. Shoto being wakizashi. No polish, no horimono, no habaki, just rough blades. I wasn't clear in my original post but the 'seller' was Sadatoshi, ie. that was the price quoted to make a daisho. But no, the commission didn't go through so maybe his prices have lowered. 1 Quote
mywei Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 As a ball park, commission Tanto by Ono Yoshimitsu ~29cm is up to 1.8M¥ with decorative horimono, 1.2M¥ for simple horimono 1 Quote
Vermithrax16 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 Need more of these discussions. Prices as listed or estimated (by seller/holder) often are not reality in my limited time. Plus, horimono is a hard pass Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 11:24 PM, Jean said: https://www.aoijapan.com/tachi-kaga-ju-ryosanshi-masamine-saku-no 20,5 k$ Masamine sells at a very high premium as compared to the smiths I listed. Ssdatoshi would be roughly in the same ballpark as the Yoshihara’s and Ono Sensei. Honestly, I’m not entirely sure why. His blades are phenomenal - but I don’t see such a radical difference in his stuff than other top-of-the-top-of the heap shinsakuto. Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 9:33 PM, Hamfish said: thanks for that Joe, (IMHO, guys for those who don't know Joe is a Gendai sword God, .... ok maybe demi-god hahahhahahha) Thanks Hamfish, but no where near correct. I know a very small bit more about a very small segments of swords than a very small set of collectors. Take me out of my sandbox and I’m a moron. For the show this weekend, I have to setup a yoroi... I have no idea where to start. The helmet goes on top right? 1 Quote
lonely panet Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 i know wha your saying Joe with modesty. we all have our small areas of knowledge. but your also abit more travelled then most others but you are also able to own and study some rather good blades. BUT I did say demi god, so maybe a local shrine god. nothing to divine yet hahhaha 2 Quote
Ken-Hawaii Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 Quote The aoijapan Tachi example is priced at ~$270 per cm of nagasa. Therefore, the tanto in the OP is worth about $6-7k assuming it’s around 25cm or so. Alan, katana & tanto, both in similar (near-perfect) condition, will sell at a similar price in many cases. You can't calculate value on a per-inch basis. Quote
lonely panet Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 not to be difficult but this is priced over 20K or would I be uneducated to say that the gassen tanto is by far the better, or is that just my bias http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/f00258.html Quote
Surfson Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 I'm not a Gassan officianado, but I do have a Sadakazu tanto and katana, both gorgeous. Dealers can ask huge prices for beautiful Gassan blades - for example this Sadaichi: http://www.ricecracker.com/japanese_swords/wakizashi/sw10.htm A Sadakazu tanto in full polish with ayasugi hada, signed Teishitsu Gigein (i.e. with his equivalent of living national treasure) would be in the range of $8-12K or so, in my opinion, as an asking/retail price. A katana, with horimono, with papers and full polish, would be in the range of $15K, give or take. My guess on this tanto, in the resale market, would be in the $10-15K range. Just my two bits worth. 1 Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 Really interesting sword! I wonder what John wound up taking for it. I bet it was quite a ways from $40k. Even though this was a gassaku work and Sadatoshi collaborated on it, there two very important differences is that the tanto in question is not a gassaku work with Nidai Sadakazu who is a smith in his own realm, and it’s a tanto not Wakizashi. Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 On 10/31/2017 at 11:40 AM, Hamfish said: not to be difficult but this is priced over 20K or would I be uneducated to say that the gassen tanto is by far the better, or is that just my bias http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/f00258.html It has TH papers which jumps the price DRASTICALLY. Right or wrong, I loosely equate TH for gendaito as the equivalent to Juyo for older blades since they are SUPER RARE and gendaito is not eligible for Juyo yet. This is why, when I paper a sword, I just do the dual Hozon/TH shinsa even though the odds of hitting that “jackpot” is next to nill. The catch here is that I don’t think many people do this because they don’t think it has a chance, so there is a lot of blades out there that would get TH if submitted, but go unsubmitted. Quote
Ray Singer Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 Arnold pointed out in an earlier thread that there actually is a gendaito which was awarded Juyo Token, a Gassan Sadakazu wakizashi dated 1908. Quote
Okiiimo Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 On 10/31/2017 at 7:58 AM, Ken-Hawaii said: Alan, katana & tanto, both in similar (near-perfect) condition, will sell at a similar price in many cases. You can't calculate value on a per-inch basis. Ken - Thank you for pointing out my failed attempt at humor! 1 Quote
Hoshi Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 Interesting that TH has discriminatory power for Gendaito, unlike earlier work. Even in ShinShinto, great smiths get automatically TH unless something is wrong. It genuinely seems that there is within-smith variation for TH in great Gendaito smiths. It's more of a contest, a la juyo. If anything it's not very coherent. Quote
Ray Singer Posted November 2, 2017 Report Posted November 2, 2017 An utushi-mono of Koryû Kagemitsu (小竜景光) by Gassan Sadatoshi. ¥2,300,000 http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/a00487.html Quote
Jean Posted November 2, 2017 Report Posted November 2, 2017 And one of Mitsuyo, I have always been fascinated by Miike school. The original sword is described as having a funbari which shows that the definition of funbari is quite loose: http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/a00489.html Quote
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