Akunin Posted October 27, 2017 Report Posted October 27, 2017 Greetings. I ask you to help in determining the authenticity of the sword. I'm not an expert on Japanese swords, so I'll be glad with the maximum information on this Type 95. I need attribution not for sale, but for museum exhibit. There is a suspicion that this is a fake. That's why I addressed here. Sincerely, Eugene Quote
vajo Posted October 27, 2017 Report Posted October 27, 2017 In my eyes - Fake. Didn't want to explain to much, because that sword copys get better and better. In Germany you got now only fake Gunto. There are so many. It is terrible. They sell it for 165 EUR everywhere. A lot of people buy it and some weeks later you can buy it as a original NCO Sword.. In Germany the only plattform for weapons is egun. You can't sell weapons on ebay.de it is forbidden and ebay close your account. So all of these swords are offered on egun.de, schwertshop.de and other german sellers. That is so boring and terrible. Quote
Shamsy Posted October 27, 2017 Report Posted October 27, 2017 Hello Eugene, This was a tough one! I admit that I've had to look at it a couple of times. I am not sure why the serial numbers are covered? That is an important part of identifying the authenticity of an NCO. I really would have liked better pictures of the fuchi in light and the serial numbers, but I am very confident this is a well made reproduction. I'm not going to go into details. If the swords are getting this good I think that's not a good idea. I very much doubt that it would matter, but even someone with a repro would be able to use that information to create a fake. There are over 8 obvious indications the sword is a repro dressed as a fake. Would need in hand to see many more. Sorry for the bad news. Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 27, 2017 Report Posted October 27, 2017 I agree. This claims to be made by Suya Shoten, but their standards and quality control were much higher than this. The serial number looks very short by the size of the painted over area - maybe too short. But it would really help to see that. Quote
lonely panet Posted October 27, 2017 Report Posted October 27, 2017 now there getting gooooooooooooooood. the tsuka casting made me look 3 times, but just look at the stamps on the nakago Quote
Akunin Posted October 28, 2017 Author Report Posted October 28, 2017 Ok, a little later I will add a photo of the unpainted serial numbers Quote
zook Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 Agree with others ... had to study it for a bit, since it is not an obvious reproduction - but at the end of the day, it has issues! Quote
Grey Doffin Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 Given the large jump in value that NCO swords have experienced in the last few years and given how relatively easy it is to copy something that is cast and milled without a lot of hand work involved, I think it is only a matter of time, and not much time at that, before the fakes are indistinguishable from the real thing. Grey 3 Quote
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 I agree, once they start nailing the kissaki and proper proportions it will be a minefield out there. Quote
brannow Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 Hi, Sorry Its not even a good fake. Look at the bohi at the kissaki and the arsenal marks are terrible! I do not think they will be able to make a perfect fake as there are too many small details right down to the materials used. 4 Quote
Kai-Gunto Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 If the tsuka can be dismanteld from sword with out removing the sarute and barrel, its a fake! Quote
paul griff Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 Hello Akunin, As above...100% fake...just look at the fit on the saya throat...But yes they are getting better...Bought a sword at a recent big militaria fair,actually two swords...left them with the sellers instead of carrying them around when I came to pick them up was approached by a very polite Chinese fella who offered to buy them at a premium off me...He didn't hide anything said he was sending them back to China...At the end of the show he had bags full...he looked like ' Buckin Bronco ' carrying them away ! Not just Gunto but Napoleonic ,K98 bayonets you name it...So look out in the future ! Stick to reliable sources more Han ever if you want to avoid getting burnt ! Regards, Paul. Quote
Stephen Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 im still baffled why paint the numbers? Quote
Kai-Gunto Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 Seppa intergrated in the fuchi is a no go here. 100 % newly made. 1 Quote
Shamsy Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 Hi, Sorry Its not even a good fake. Look at the bohi at the kissaki and the arsenal marks are terrible! I do not think they will be able to make a perfect fake as there are too many small details right down to the materials used. I completely agree with Bill here. Even should they be able to reproduce the sword exactly, it is not just that one should be looking at, but a series of common features in patina that are universal to genuine, old NCO. I do share Grey’s sentiment though. NCOs will progress into the minefield of German militaria in the next couple of decades. It is something I very much dread, having to carefully vet every sword I see, but that's what happens when something increases in value at a steady rate each and every year. Quote
Shamsy Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 He didn't hide anything said he was sending them back to China...At the end of the show he had bags full...he looked like ' Buckin Bronco ' carrying them away ! Not just Gunto but Napoleonic ,K98 bayonets you name it...So look out in the future! I'll be an optimist... Did he say to use as the basis for copies? China has a rising group of wealthy individuals who are buying up cars, gold, realeatate, antiques and art at an alarming rate. Maybe he is just one of the many merchants capitalising on a class of people with more money than they know what to do with. There are genuine collectors throughout China too. 2 Quote
Akunin Posted October 28, 2017 Author Report Posted October 28, 2017 Here are the expected photos of the serial numbers. Many thanks to all for replies. Let's sum up. Could someone simply call the most obvious differences from the original? Quote
Akunin Posted October 28, 2017 Author Report Posted October 28, 2017 I forgot to point out that inside the scabbard there are wooden inserts Quote
paul griff Posted October 28, 2017 Report Posted October 28, 2017 Hello Steve, You could be right...He actually didn't know the first thing about swords...If it looked good he would take a photo send it off and a reply would come back on the phone...He offered to buy my stuff plus 30% on top...It's kind of ironic though because one of the swords he wanted wasn't technically Japanese it was 'ersatz' made in occupied territories.... albeit one of the nicest I have come across !If he's at the next fair I'll give him a grilling... Regards, Paul. Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 29, 2017 Report Posted October 29, 2017 Here are the expected photos of the serial numbers. Many thanks to all for replies. Let's sum up. Could someone simply call the most obvious differences from the original? Eugene, In my earlier years, I would have rattled off a long list of the things I see wrong, where the veterans would remain silent. But as I have been at this for a while, I'm seeing how much better the reproductions are getting, and I realize that every bit of help they can get by reading posts like this, helps them make their fakes even better. I would recommend you check with your original person who raised the concern about it's originality. You might also visit the Ohmura site and study the pictures there. http://ohmura-study.net/790.html I'm not trying to be rude, but we don't know you and your authenticity in your posted reasons to be here. And even if your intentions are completely legitimate, the "bad guys" are still out there and could read this post. I don't want to help them any more than necessary. 4 Quote
Shamsy Posted October 29, 2017 Report Posted October 29, 2017 Bruce has politely written exactly what my reply would have been. People can scoff at paranoia as much as you like but the simple fact is they are getting better, whether through study of originals or reading well intentioned post. A number of opinions have been provided, some with hints of the issues. There are some very knowledgeable and experienced folk here and you can trust their deduction. Funny story Paul. It sounds to me like he was indeed a 3rd party procuring items. There's a technical term for it in Australia. Typically it is for food and baby goods and it is actually a livelihood. Obviously I can't be sure, but that's my guess anyway. Quote
Brian Posted October 29, 2017 Report Posted October 29, 2017 Have always thought the comments about not tipping off the forgers are just plain silly.I still do.The image of some rough factory in China where they are turning these out...and some guy on a computer somewhere shouting out in Chinese into the factory "Hey guys! Make the gap between the arsenal marks less! The NMB says so!" is just ridiculous.They HAVE genuine ones to copy. There are collectors in China, and if they need more, they can buy them. They don't need to read the NMB daily to see if there are any tips. They just copy the real swords they import.Just comment what you like, you are not changing anything. 4 Quote
vajo Posted October 29, 2017 Report Posted October 29, 2017 There are two NCO late stage on Ebay now. Around $1.000 The prices go higher and higher and they will copy better and better to take part on this. I din't know why the NCO swords are asked so strong. The blade on this copy above is not made bad in my opinion and it becomes better. The members here in the board who collect these swords are taking a very good investment for the future. I was so stupid to have some and sold it - for better swords Quote
IJASWORDS Posted October 29, 2017 Report Posted October 29, 2017 Unfortunately have to agree with Brian, as prices move upwards, the copies will inevitably get better. There is not much more complicated (and valuable) as ROLEX watches. It now takes an expert to tell the difference between a Chinese $25 copy ROLEX and the real deal, right down to the automatic movement. So if they put their mind to it, an NCO sword should be no problem to reproduce. There are strategies in place with most countries Customs and Border protection to seize and destroy fake watches, handbags, CD's DVD's etc, but swords are not even on the RADAR. By the way, the MILLIONS of copy ROLEXS have not slowed the demand for the real thing, or stopped prices rising. Neil. 3 Quote
lonely panet Posted October 29, 2017 Report Posted October 29, 2017 real, good condition, price is abit high. more then I would pay but I'm grinch https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WW2-Japanese-Type-95-NCO-Sword/222687760837?hash=item33d93991c5:g:KZAAAOSwIJlZ6-vP another version, price is abit high but a honest piece https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Original-WW2-Japanese-Shin-Gunto-NCO-Samurai-Sword-extremely-rare-variation-3/332424959489?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D48795%26meid%3D4f20fff958304da4af55f1ba88fb7e90%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D222687760837&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 Quote
BANGBANGSAN Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 The collctors in China can spot the fake easily as well,and they pay more than us to get the real ones. 1 Quote
J Reid Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 I can't get over the prices on these nowadays.. crazy Quote
BANGBANGSAN Posted October 30, 2017 Report Posted October 30, 2017 https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-WWII-Japanese-NCO-OFFICERS-SWORD-WITH-MATCHING-NUMBERS/253234351978?hash=item3af5f18f6a:g:wxsAAOSwAHtZ94Dm Another Fake on Ebay... 1 Quote
Windy Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-WWII-Japanese-NCO-OFFICERS-SWORD-WITH-MATCHING-NUMBERS/253234351978?hash=item3af5f18f6a:g:wxsAAOSwAHtZ94Dm Another Fake on Ebay... That one is a real shocker!! Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted October 31, 2017 Report Posted October 31, 2017 https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-WWII-Japanese-NCO-OFFICERS-SWORD-WITH-MATCHING-NUMBERS/253234351978?hash=item3af5f18f6a:g:wxsAAOSwAHtZ94Dm Another Fake on Ebay... I sent the seller a message. Hope he listens. Sometimes they get irate. Quote
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