Old Japanese Naval Sword

[Jon MB]

Hello All,

 

Hope you are all having a great day.

 

Here we have..I think...a Japanese Naval Sabre....from the 1870's (?) 

 

I await your erudite remarks.

 

Overall length: 78 cm (30.7")

Blade Length: 65.5 cm (25.7")

 

Horn grips. Wire wrap presumably missing.

 

Blade looks shortened, but period done. Maybe post-capture, for fitting in duffel-bag, or the original Naval owner wanted something

short and convenient. Scabbard leather bulges slightly at point where meets the chape.

 

I have not encountered this type before.

 

Sold as 'French'. Notice the markings at base of blade, somewhat un-french.

 

Jon MB

[vajo]

Hello Jon,

 

Delete:

I think it is a naval guard sword. Look in dawsons book.

But a lot of details looks very different. I can't say something right.

It looks none Japanese for my eyes.

[Geraint]

Hi John.

 

Nice find!  Modeled on French sword types but Fuller and Gregory have a line drawing of this sword which they identify as "Superior (and Junior) Petty Officers. (F&G 1996 Fig.24  They seem to suspect that it might be an 1873 variant.  Obsolete in 1914.  They go on to say that no examples of this type have been reported to the authors.  Given their extensive research and network of contacts this must make it pretty rare, unless of course they are a common find in the US.  

 

I should say that was a result!

 

All the best.

 

P.S.  Not sure that it has been shortened, isn't that what's called a spear point? 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Very early model indeed, I have only seen such swords in reference books.

[Bruce Pennington]

Dawson has some that are close. Closest seems to be the Guard Design #3, pg 226. He states "During the ten years that passed between the introduction of the 1873 models and the introduction of the 1883 models, the navy apparently experimented with a variety of designs that were not included in the Naval Uniform Regulations"

 

So I'd say a Navy 1873 variant. Be nice if someone would translate the kanji?!?

[Jon MB]

Books are in storage. I winged it with the purchase, but cannot contribute hard facts. I did recall seeing something similar in Fuller and Gregory, thus I went for it. Thanks for the useful intel so far!

[vajo]

Take a deeper look in the carvings.

[Geraint]

Chris.

I'm afraid you will need to explain your remark.

All the best.

[Jon MB]

Not to answer for him, but I think Chris is unhappy with the lack of references for this piece in his literature, and maybe the anchor mark.

[Jon MB]

As David Flynn said today, on another thread, 'Never say never with Japanese swords'.

[Geraint]

The double ringed anchor without sakura is recorded..............

 

All the best.

[lonely panet]

pre 1880 navals swords are very odd balls, never 2 the same and always influenced by Prussian, French military, and on a rare occasion mounted like a US saber. this sword was obsolete by 1886 as the fully enclosed d-guard was introduced,  in the 1873-6 junior officers sword, marking the permanent change to the naval sword we have seen until the kai gunto.

 

this guys hit lotto, jackpot     

 

most machine made blades are made over seas and imported into Japan, the inspection marks are datable but tricky as very very little information. the Germans did a lot of early blades clemen & jung, junkers etc, 

 

its amazing its in complete condition, call jim D this one needs to in a book for reference.

 

 

its a real, rare gem. 

 

 

love it, I would have killed to have one like it when I was collecting (literally killed)

 

out of interest what did u snap up this little gem for??

[Jon MB]

I prefer to be discreet with regard to price, but it was affordable. Thank you for all these helpful and encouraging comments.

[vajo]

Jon i was looking today in some of my friends "german edged weapons pictures" and I agree now with Hamfish. It is a very nice saber and i think too, this piece must find its way in a reference book (for guys like me, they are so critical because of not knowing).

 

Best

 

Chris

[Kai-Gunto]

Very nice early navy sword. Very Rare.

[Peter Bleed]

Indeed. blades like this with a double edged widened point seem to have been common on both "German" and Austrian swords during the late 19th century.. Wagner (1967), mentions one of that has a "oriental dragon."  He links it to the Boxer Rebellion. Whatever the specific avenue, international events of those times afforded exchange of arms and ideas.

Peter

[Jon MB]

Styles of sabre were also presumably influenced by the nationality of contracted military advisors of the period, as well as the tastes of Emperor Meiji, an enthusiastic designer of uniforms and military dress protocols.