Number On Fitting

[dirtvictim]

Wondering what the numbers on this fitting means. None of the other fittings have a number. This is a non military marked blade.

Thanks

David

[Mark]

maybe it is mismatched? the numbers are an assembly number used to keep all the original parts for a sword together and avoid swapping parts

[Bruce Pennington]

David,

 

Mark is correct about the assembly numbers. They aren't always there, but when they are, the number is usually on all the seppa, and often the tsuba. But if the pieces match perfectly, then they could have been made for this blade, and the number-stamping-person simply didn't finish them all (end of a shift; end of the day; US bombing run interrupted; etc). Like Mark said, it could be a replacement seppa too.

[dirtvictim]

  On 10/3/2017 at 11:16 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

David,

Mark is correct about the assembly numbers. They aren't always there, but when they are, the number is usually on all the seppa, and often the tsuba. But if the pieces match perfectly, then they could have been made for this blade, and the number-stamping-person simply didn't finish them all (end of a shift; end of the day; US bombing run interrupted; etc). Like Mark said, it could be a replacement seppa too.

Yes everything fits perfect, handle has some damage but very good fit. Since the blade is signed and not military I was concerned as to the authenticity of these fittings. The saya is wood and almost all fittings are non magnetic.

Thanks for the info it helps.

David

[Bruce Pennington]

I'm confused by your thought that the blade was not military. You haven't posted pics of the nakago (tang) and signature. Is it one of the old blades fitted for WWII?

[dirtvictim]

  On 10/4/2017 at 2:35 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

I'm confused by your thought that the blade was not military. You haven't posted pics of the nakago (tang) and signature. Is it one of the old blades fitted for WWII?

I posted pics in the translation forum under kanji id, but not much info came of it. It's not a mil blade.

[Bruce Pennington]

David,

 

I took a look - nice looking blade! I don't know if you've seen this page on Kami Yoshimichi: http://japaneseswordindex.com/yoshmich.htm

 

There were 11 generations of them. I only saw 2 oshigata (actual tang signatures) of them, so that's not a big sample, but I can see why some of the guys were leary of the signature on this sword. There didn't seem to be the amount of old-age rust on the tang (dark, blackish) to make it very old. So, there is a chance it was made during the war with a "gaimei" or faked signature. Several smiths were arrested during the war for making faked signatures. Famous smith names on blades were worth more money that non-famous names. So there was a strong temptation for some smiths to want to fake a famous one.

 

Like I said, 11 generations are a LOT of smiths and swords, so without more old signatures to compare yours to, I wouldn't side either way on the issue. And either way, that a really good lookin' gunto!

[dirtvictim]

  On 10/4/2017 at 3:51 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

David,

I took a look - nice looking blade! I don't know if you've seen this page on Kami Yoshimichi: http://japaneseswordindex.com/yoshmich.htm

There were 11 generations of them. I only saw 2 oshigata (actual tang signatures) of them, so that's not a big sample, but I can see why some of the guys were leary of the signature on this sword. There didn't seem to be the amount of old-age rust on the tang (dark, blackish) to make it very old. So, there is a chance it was made during the war with a "gaimei" or faked signature. Several smiths were arrested during the war for making faked signatures. Famous smith names on blades were worth more money that non-famous names. So there was a strong temptation for some smiths to want to fake a famous one.

Like I said, 11 generations are a LOT of smiths and swords, so without more old signatures to compare yours to, I wouldn't side either way on the issue. And either way, that a really good lookin' gunto!

That's a lot of good info, intrigues me somewhat. So there is potential that it could be made by an infamous forger? The hamon lights up like lightning when in the sun, my paul chen doesn't have the depth in the hamon, quite nice for sure. I will spend some more time on research now thanks to your input.

Thanks, David

[dirtvictim]

Since the tsuba and seppa were loose I decided to make extra seppa for this and it worked out well, now a snug fit. I used a sterling silver bowl and hand cut and fit the seppa. I did a random pattern hammer finish and hand knurled the edge for a nice finished look. Lastly I used some tarnishing fluid to give them an aged look. I initialed and dated them on the back side for the heck of it. I know Silver wasn't common for seppa but sadly I had no brass.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Nice work David, personally I have found success with either leather or any spare seppa in my parts box. Good idea to mark them with date for any future collectors.

[Kai-Gunto]

The seppa near the habaki, has always a smaller hole for the lockclip than the other seppas.

[dirtvictim]

  On 10/19/2017 at 5:06 AM, PNSSHOGUN said:

Nice work David, personally I have found success with either leather or any spare seppa in my parts box. Good idea to mark them with date for any future collectors.

Thanks, I have a few pounds of scrap sterling so I use it where I can.

 

  On 10/19/2017 at 5:34 AM, Kai-Gunto said:

The seppa near the habaki, has always a smaller hole for the lockclip than the other seppas.

I did not see that in examples but I can see where that makes sense. I will remember that if I ever decide to redo them. Thanks.

[dwmc]

Nice work on the seppa...guess had you not told us ... we probably would have been debating the origin of those also !

 

Interesting sword !

 

Dave

[dirtvictim]

  On 10/19/2017 at 2:38 PM, dwmc said:

Nice work on the seppa...guess had you not told us ... we probably would have been debating the origin of those also !

 

Interesting sword !

 

Dave

For sure this sword has some questions to be answered but I figured why not snug things up. I won't do anything else to it but I am letting go of my paul chen to make room for it on my wall.