Kanji Id

[dirtvictim]

Wondering if someone can help me decipher the kanji on this old sword. Any help would be appreciated.

Some basic info: this has what appears to be 1940's fittings, wood scabbard. Blade is pretty clean and sharp all the way, Hamon is super nice. Tang is rusty and kanji are deep set. Handle has damage but is complete. Fittings are non magnetic aside from the ball with the hoop and also the lock.

Thanks for any help.

David

[John A Stuart]

Tamba no Kami Yoshimichi, I believe. 丹波守吉道 John

[Surfson]

Haven't studied the mei, but doesn't feel right.

[dirtvictim]

Tamba no Kami Yoshimichi, I believe. 丹波守吉道 John

Thanks for the info, I may need to have this authenticated then. Any other input is appreciated.

[Stephen]

first gut feeling is showato with big name better photos of nakago with all the new red rust wiped off.

[dirtvictim]

first gut feeling is showato with big name better photos of nakago with all the new red rust wiped off.

What's the rule on wiping off rust, I was told not to, I know not to touch the blade. Also under magnification it looks that this is layered.

[Stephen]

Its the bright red rust we want gone. A old T shirt slightly oiled then wipe change fold..repeat...till no more rust comes off on T.

[dirtvictim]

Its the bright red rust we want gone. A old T shirt slightly oiled then wipe change fold..repeat...till no more rust comes off on T.

That idea makes me nervous, can I get a consensus from other members here?

I will look up articles to confirm but so far I've only seen where they say don't touch the rust.

[b.hennick]

You should remove only red rust from the tang as it is destroying the tang. Black rust is a protective coating that should not be removed. Stephen knows what he is talking about.

[dirtvictim]

You should remove only red rust from the tang as it is destroying the tang. Black rust is a protective coating that should not be removed. Stephen knows what he is talking about.

I get the feeling you guys wouldn't want me to destroy any blade that has potential. Thanks for the consensus, I will clean it as Stephen suggested and post more pics afterwards.

[dirtvictim]

Ok cleaned tang as Stephen suggested. Don't see any other markings or kanji. Deeper rusting near hole. Blade length is about 25.5" oal 33" thanks again for your input.

David

[Stephen]

good job, now for  some close ups of blade activity please 

[dirtvictim]

Guessing you mean blade condition along hamon. Hope these are clear enough.

[Stephen]

Yea, i dont get a good feeling of the blade, amatuer polish?, ill let others chime in as i seem to be a bit to cryptic.

[dirtvictim]

Yea, i dont get a good feeling of the blade, amatuer polish?, ill let others chime in as i seem to be a bit to cryptic.

i will assume you believe it to be fake. no worries i had no expectations. still nicer than my paul chen bamboo and cost way less.

thanks again for the input.

David

[PNSSHOGUN]

Does remind me a little of amateur polish with acid etch. In fact reminds me strongly of paul chen style polish. Either way, it's real and looks like a decently made sword.

[ROKUJURO]

David,

from photos you cannot see and judge too much, but it seems that the blade was traditionally made, so it is probably a real NIHONTO and has a value. If the signature confirms the properties and qualities, then you have something really good that may be worth a professional polish to bring out the beauty. 

However, if the signature is not from the smith, but from someone else who used this famous MEI to make some money (or for other reasons), the value might not be as high. Nevertheless, it may remain a nice sword.

My personal opinion from the pictures of the NAKAGO is that the YASURI-MEI is too distinct and fresh to confirm with the alleged age of the blade. But that is just based on the photos. No real expertise (which I could not supply) can be expected without seeing a blade in hand.  

[Bazza]

Ah well, I'll stretch my neck out and say it has all the hallmarks of a Chinese or non-traditional copy of a Nihonto.  The nakago - poor shape; the mei kanji - terribly poor; the blade shape - dreadful; the hamon - hmmmmmm...  I think David himself has hit the nail on the head when he said "i will assume you believe it to be fake. no worries i had no expectations."

 

Best regards,

BaZZa.

[dirtvictim]

Thanks for the input guys. I love the way the hamon looks like lightning in the sun light. I assume that if it was acid etched the etching would disappear with a polish so I doubt I'd risk that without deeper knowledge of its origin. Seems like a lot to go through to just hide this in a Gunto if fake, like putting a Ferrari engine in a pinto, I wouldn't understand that logic. Seems like it would be an interesting piece if made by an infamous forger. More research ahead.

Thanks again

David

[dirtvictim]

I know this is an old post but I thought I would see if any new input on this would be out there. I made a move a while back and it sat in storage, recently put it back on display and got me wondering what more I can learn about it. 
Thanks for all the help in the past guys. 

[Bugyotsuji]

If it helps, the mei is trying to say the famous "Tamba no Kami Yoshimichi', in similar writing style.

丹波の守吉道銘 - Bing images

[dirtvictim]

17 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

If it helps, the mei is trying to say the famous "Tamba no Kami Yoshimichi', in similar writing style.

丹波の守吉道銘 - Bing images

Thanks. I have that info just wondering if there is more to learn, perhaps someone knows more about if it really is a fake and perhaps by now knows who did these fakes and when they were done. 

[Shugyosha]

David, 

You can submit to shinsa and have the most definitive answer you can hope for.
 

After a while you get a feeling about these things; for me no old patina on the tang of a 17th century blade, clear yasurimei, no evident jihada and what looks like bo utsuri on a blade by this smith are all red flags. 

 

I hope I’m wrong but for me the blade has significant issues for it to be authenticated as either a genuine Japanese sword or by this smith. I’m sorry and I hope you didn’t spend much on it. 

[John C]

1 hour ago, dirtvictim said:

just wondering if there is more to learn

David:

A minor point. But it seems the hamon comes awfully close to the edge of the blade in some places. If it touches (or runs off) the edge, that would be considered a fatal flaw. This could be an indication that the blade was produced by a novice rather than someone experienced. 

John C.

[Shugyosha]

Hi John, it’s actually a significant observation.
 

I didn’t want to labour the point but fairly wide hamon tend to be a trait of shinto swords and they rarely dip close to the ha. 

[dirtvictim]

4 hours ago, Shugyosha said:

David, 

You can submit to shinsa and have the most definitive answer you can hope for.
 

After a while you get a feeling about these things; for me no old patina on the tang of a 17th century blade, clear yasurimei, no evident jihada and what looks like bo utsuri on a blade by this smith are all red flags. 

 

I hope I’m wrong but for me the blade has significant issues for it to be authenticated as either a genuine Japanese sword or by this smith. I’m sorry and I hope you didn’t spend much on it. 

Thanks for the input, i will look into shinsa. I had no hopes it was real since the last time I posted a few years ago it was a consensus that the signature was inconsistent to authentic. It was basically free in a large lot of swords and knives I picked up back then, after selling several I owe nothing to it. 

3 hours ago, John C said:

David:

A minor point. But it seems the hamon comes awfully close to the edge of the blade in some places. If it touches (or runs off) the edge, that would be considered a fatal flaw. This could be an indication that the blade was produced by a novice rather than someone experienced. 

John C.

 

I do see that the hamon comes close but don't see it actually touching anywhere except at the tang. I suspect it was cleaned prior to me receiving it. Likely a novice made this as you say, kinda wish there was a way to find out who did it. Still confused as to why a fake would be hiding inside these vintage fittings, who would know and seems like a lot of work to just hide it. Looks great sitting on my shelf no matter who made it.
Thanks again guys.