Stephen Posted September 7, 2017 Report Posted September 7, 2017 We guarantee this blade will pass NBTHK Hozon and also Tokubetsu Hozon Shinsa. https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-nagamitsu Quote
Vermithrax16 Posted September 7, 2017 Report Posted September 7, 2017 Someone should buy it and put to the test IMO. That's a jump in hope from what I know about showa blades, which is not much at all, about zero. 1 Quote
brannow Posted September 7, 2017 Report Posted September 7, 2017 I Have a nagamitsu with Hozon papers. Quote
Bazza Posted September 7, 2017 Report Posted September 7, 2017 TH for this sword??? I'll believe it when I see it. Decades ago I had a NAGAMITSU with the same kanji but without SAKU. I lived with this for a time looking at it carefully and comparing it to the rest of my collection as it was. This Nagamitsu did nothing for me and in the end I sold it... Don't regret it to this day. BaZZa. Quote
vajo Posted September 7, 2017 Report Posted September 7, 2017 This is a massive, healthy sword in a very good polish and a nice lenght. Look at the old shirasya. Someone take care over a long time on it. Look for a gendaito in such condition and you will pay more then 2200 US-Dollar. This is not a bad deal and why not tokubetsu hozon? Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted September 7, 2017 Report Posted September 7, 2017 Why not tokubetsu hozon? First and foremost, the quality of blade doesn't even come close to warranting it. It's near impossible to get TH for a gendaito blade these days. That will loosen in the coming years/decades, but for now, the panel has awarded TH for Sadakazu, Sadakatsu, Akihira/Yukihira, and I seem to remember a Toshihira as well, but am not sure. First, compare the quality of this blade vs. a known Gendai TH blade (http://iidakoendo.com/4540/). Ask yourself the question, is the blade quality in the same ballpark as a known example? IMO, no. Not even close! The jigane on the Nagamitsu is unrefined, the hamon looks like it can't decide on whether it wants to be a nice uniform choji based on suguha or a midare choji. There is zero activity to the hamon (that I can see) - this isn't a major factor, as I have seen plenty of older swords that are healthy but relatively boring that have been awarded TH - the difference being that they are old and healthy. Second, while I am a believer that names shouldn't mean much when granting paper levels, based on the TH gendaito that I'm aware of, currently, it does mean something. Nagamitsu and Emura gained popularity in the US in part because of how many there are. So there are more to study, which prompts more research, which prompts more to be written on them. Their popularity - again, IMO - is more based on that and their relatively low price tag. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of nice Nagamitsu's out there, but IMO the man (or men) forging these swords could not consistently achieve the same level of quality that a Sadayoshi, Sadakazu, Sadakatsu, etc. could consistently create. Side note: the best Nagamitsu's that I've seen were signed to include "Ichiryushi" and his longer mei, including "Bizen...", etc. There is on the board a nice example including the sword being forged at or near a castle (can't recall which one). This is not signed that way and looks like I would expect - pretty plain and if lower quality. I could give opinion on this, but it's not important, and just opinion and conjecture. Overall, with the precedent set and the quality of this blade vs. other gendai blades that have TH, this doesn't stand a chance to get that level. I would probably confirm that this isn't a typo on Aoi's part before buying. If interested in the sword, I would have realistic expectations on what this sword can achieve from a paper standpoint (Hozon is a lock, but no further). If you just wanted to test out their return policy on paper guarantees, there are far cheaper ways to do so. I would bet that someone here has had this situation of a guarantee that wasn't fulfilled and took Aoi up on a return. Just ask. Edit to add: This sword is VERY standard length for war era gendaito. Their is nothing "massive" about this sword and the length of 25.6" is nothing special. In fact, I would argue that this sword would be far more expensive if the length was shorter and wakizashi length as they are way more rare than daito length war era blades. 4 Quote
Brian Posted September 7, 2017 Report Posted September 7, 2017 Do they offer the same guarantee on the Japanese page? Often they copy/paste incorrect info from another sword.No...this won't get TH imho. 2 Quote
mywei Posted September 7, 2017 Report Posted September 7, 2017 On 9/7/2017 at 12:05 PM, Brian said: Do they offer the same guarantee on the Japanese page? Often they copy/paste incorrect info from another sword. No...this won't get TH imho. Japanese page only has a money back guarantee if it does not achieve Hozon (it'll be slim chance of TH with this blade !) 2 Quote
Stephen Posted September 7, 2017 Author Report Posted September 7, 2017 IMHO one of their other ones would have a better chance of TH, should go Hozon fer sur https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-uno-shin-15-mai-tanren-bizen-kuni-jyunin-ichiryushi-nagamitsu-saku agree with B its just another sloppy clerk mistake. 1 Quote
Stefan Posted September 7, 2017 Report Posted September 7, 2017 On 9/7/2017 at 8:21 AM, vajo said: This is a massive, healthy sword in a very good polish and a nice lenght. Look at the old shirasya. Someone take care over a long time on it. Look for a gendaito in such condition and you will pay more then 2200 US-Dollar. This is not a bad deal and why not tokubetsu hozon? The blade is not of high quality for Nagamitsu , therefore it will never receive TH. I handeld severeal Nagamitsu Quote
vajo Posted September 7, 2017 Report Posted September 7, 2017 Thank you Joe for the explanation. I learned! Chris 2 Quote
lonely panet Posted September 8, 2017 Report Posted September 8, 2017 look hard at he nakago guys, this is a low end nagamitsu, as it appears to have a lower quality metal attached below the mekugi ana (cant recall the correct term as I am living on no sleep). this is a cost saving measure to save tamahagane during the wartime. Joe is correct with every point. just look at the kissaki!! its shape is horrible. iv seen high end showa seki blades that would almost surpass in every aspect, evan in the hada hahahahha 2 Quote
TheGermanBastard Posted September 8, 2017 Report Posted September 8, 2017 First of all I think the person who set up the description most likely just made a typo! You see this often on AOI Art. Sometimes information is missing, sometimes they give information that is not accurate like saying blade has TBH while there is only Hozon Origami etc. This is sloopy but I do not think resulting from bad intentions. Now for this blade in particular: Would it receive TBH? Most probably (99.9%) NO. Atleast not today nor in the near future. In 100 years? Probably yes. What is modern today will be an antique in 50 years. I feel not comfortable at judging the qualiyt of the blade. While I agree that this is most probably a great example of Nagamitsu - he signs those differently - it is hard to judge the blade as the foremost "problem" is that it has received a pretty poor polish. Put a bad polish on just about any blade and it will make it look bad ... 1 Quote
vajo Posted September 12, 2017 Report Posted September 12, 2017 Hamfish, great advise. I've never checked this before. Quote
Darcy Posted September 15, 2017 Report Posted September 15, 2017 I thought Tokubetsu Hozon was no longer possible for gendaito? http://www.nihontocraft.com/Nihonto_Shinsa_Standards.html This only mentions Meiji and Taisho blades as qualifying for Hozon if in excellent shape, signed and ubu. Only their very best work can go to Tokubetsu Hozon. No mention of Showa period blades. So, anyone know for a fact if Showa is completely on the outs for Tokubetsu Hozon? You can find a Gassan Sadakatsu from time to time at Tokubetsu Hozon but my understanding was when they revised the standards they were not going to allow that anymore. Quote
TheGermanBastard Posted September 15, 2017 Report Posted September 15, 2017 On 9/15/2017 at 1:14 PM, Darcy said: I thought Tokubetsu Hozon was no longer possible for gendaito? http://www.nihontocraft.com/Nihonto_Shinsa_Standards.html This only mentions Meiji and Taisho blades as qualifying for Hozon if in excellent shape, signed and ubu. Only their very best work can go to Tokubetsu Hozon. No mention of Showa period blades. So, anyone know for a fact if Showa is completely on the outs for Tokubetsu Hozon? You can find a Gassan Sadakatsu from time to time at Tokubetsu Hozon but my understanding was when they revised the standards they were not going to allow that anymore. That is interesting. Thanks for sharing! Would also like if this is the case now. Yes, there are more than a few Gassan Sadakatsu with TBH and I this is just my own personal oppinion but it does not make sense to me to allow some average Shinshinto blade to go TBH while a masterpiece made by master smith Sadakatsu would not. Everybody be is his own judge. I can not follow up on this. So would be interesting to know for sure what is the present NBTHKs oppinion on this. Quote
SwordGuyJoe Posted September 15, 2017 Report Posted September 15, 2017 They don't specifically mention showa, but does mention "recently deceased smith's". Since the beginning of showa was 90+ years ago, I'd challenge anyone to find a "recently deceased" smith who was active in the Taisho (or Meiji) era. I don't see anything that excludes showa from hozon or TH. Quote
mareo1912 Posted September 16, 2017 Report Posted September 16, 2017 Hey guys, I wrote them a mail and asked for it a few days ago and they stated that they have a money back guarantee on Hozon bot nothing for Tokubetsu Hozon. I quote: "For this blade it is hard to get Tokubetsu hozon". Quote
lonely panet Posted September 20, 2017 Report Posted September 20, 2017 heres another nagamitsu from the past with the same style cost saving of materials in the nakago Quote
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