Dan512 Posted September 4, 2017 Report Posted September 4, 2017 Hi guys, I´m new to this board. I have been collecting knives since I was a teenager, and have always been fascinated by samurais swords. Now 25 years later, I have some more means and since a friend if mine spend a year in Japan recently, I asked him if he could source me a nice ancient armor and a sword, to put up in my house. I am not looking for a specific period etc. as all this is really new to me. I would like a nice ancient armor to admire and put up in my bedroom. I am willing to spend some money on it, as I intend to keep it, also as sort of an invest that maintains it's value and taht I can enjoy looking at and learning about. So back to the story: My friend has an aquaintance in Japan who is a travel guide for foreign high rollers, and also takes them to antique shops if they want to spend some money there. He just send me some details of an armor (and on a sword, l'll write a second thread for that) that was offered to him. Here is what I got so far from the guide. "Blue Yoroi Armor set Dated to 1764 (Mid-Edo period) Complete, with original box Armor also comes with a wooden display stand Price, including shipping to Europe: 1.900.000 ¥ The wooden plaque (written by a previous owner) reads: Hon-kofuda (true lacquered parts ~ refers to the small individual black armor pieces being made of lacquered wood as was traditional in that era, rather than metal.) Kon-ito tsunageta (laced together with dark blue thread) Ni-maido Gusoku (complete set with separate front and back plates) Meiwa ni-nen (Dated the 2nd year of Meiwa = 1764) The owner is also suggesting two accessories to go with the armor set for display purposes, both of which are contemporaneous to the armor and quite rare: A "Saihai": a short staff with paper wand used to wave troops into battle. Price: ¥48,000 A "Jinbaori" jacket: a brocade battle jacket that was worn over armor. Price: ¥75,000" If some of you could get me some of your input, I would really appreciate. Thanks in advance! Dan
estcrh Posted September 4, 2017 Report Posted September 4, 2017 Hi guys, I´m new to this board. I have been collecting knives since I was a teenager, and have always been fascinated by samurais swords. Now 25 years later, I have some more means and since a friend if mine spend a year in Japan recently, I asked him if he could source me a nice ancient armor and a sword, to put up in my house. I am not looking for a specific period etc. as all this is really new to me. I would like a nice ancient armor to admire and put up in my bedroom. I am willing to spend some money on it, as I intend to keep it, also as sort of an invest that maintains it's value and taht I can enjoy looking at and learning about. So back to the story: My friend has an aquaintance in Japan who is a travel guide for foreign high rollers, and also takes them to antique shops if they want to spend some money there. He just send me some details of an armor (and on a sword, l'll write a second thread for that) that was offered to him. Here is what I got so far from the guide. "Blue Yoroi Armor set Dated to 1764 (Mid-Edo period) Complete, with original box Armor also comes with a wooden display stand Price, including shipping to Europe: 1.900.000 ¥ The wooden plaque (written by a previous owner) reads: Hon-kofuda (true lacquered parts ~ refers to the small individual black armor pieces being made of lacquered wood as was traditional in that era, rather than metal.) Kon-ito tsunageta (laced together with dark blue thread) Ni-maido Gusoku (complete set with separate front and back plates) Meiwa ni-nen (Dated the 2nd year of Meiwa = 1764) The owner is also suggesting two accessories to go with the armor set for display purposes, both of which are contemporaneous to the armor and quite rare: A "Saihai": a short staff with paper wand used to wave troops into battle. Price: ¥48,000 A "Jinbaori" jacket: a brocade battle jacket that was worn over armor. Price: ¥75,000" If some of you could get me some of your input, I would really appreciate. Thanks in advance! Dan Dan, at least you were smart enough to ask for advice BEFORE purchasing. First, it would be very helpful to turn the images so that are not sideways, this is disorienting, second.....the individual scales (hon kozane) are not wood, if not metal then they are rawhide. I personally feel that the price is way to high and you can do better. Take some time to look around, if you want, people here will recommend some Japanese armor dealers both in Japan and Europe that sell decent armors so you can compare. Take your time and do not rush into this. One other thing, the images provided are not very good, they are small and do not show each individual part of the armor, both inside and out, this is something that would allow you to see any flaws and also to help show if the parts are matching to this armor, or if it has some non matching parts.
Dan512 Posted September 4, 2017 Author Report Posted September 4, 2017 Thanks Eric, I am posting from my Ipad, and there the pics are the right way up. But as soon as I upload them, they rotate. I don't have access to a computer currently, so no clue how to fix this. If you can provide addresses to trustworthy dealers in Europe, I am all ears. Dan
DaveT Posted September 4, 2017 Report Posted September 4, 2017 Hi Dan, A nice matched armour that's in good condition.Hon kozane gusoku are expensive. I've seen UK dealers selling kirisuke versions for £10k so I actually feel that this is priced correctly. Japanese armour has seen a price hike since the OTT collection sold. I attend all the UK Arms Fairs, and prices are creeping up. I would sell this between £12-14kI would leave the jacket, they cover up too much of the armour, also this has the flag holder at the back. The baton is a good thing to have and are becoming very difficult to source.
tom Posted September 4, 2017 Report Posted September 4, 2017 Hi Dan, all in all it is a nice Hon Kozane Gusuku with a fine Toppai Nari Kabuto, and the Price of this Yoroi is a normal Dealer Price. And here in Europe you pay mutch more for this quallity. As Dave said, the Prices for good Yoroi like these will go mutch higher in the neext few Years. Tom
estcrh Posted September 4, 2017 Report Posted September 4, 2017 $17,322.30 US or 14,541 Euro......With just these pictures....I think it would be a good idea to look around a bit. Here is a link with Japanese and European dealers, spend some time and do some research. http://samuraiantiqueworld.proboards.com/thread/50/Japanese-armor-weapons-dealers
DaveT Posted September 4, 2017 Report Posted September 4, 2017 Eric,There is no going rate on what an armour should cost. Its all about what the seller is asking and what the buyer has to spend. I cannot understand why you are directing a potential buyer to shop around when the armour he has found is reasonable priced. On your list you have Jones & Jones (dead link) they have the kirisuke armour that I mentioned, it's just over 10K and again reasonably priced. The one above is far better, and you would expect to pay more for it. I'm networked to most of the dealers that sell kachu internationally and we often talk to each other about pricing.I'm very aware of market prices as I still sell armours all year round from my Gallery.So my opinion and advice to Dan is a professional one.
uwe Posted September 4, 2017 Report Posted September 4, 2017 I think is a nice matching set (based on the pics)! Nevertheless, the buyer should be aware of all the small additional costs. Shipping, handling, customs and last but not least (depending on the country) the beloved import VAT
estcrh Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 I think is a nice matching set (based on the pics)! Nevertheless, the buyer should be aware of all the small additional costs. Shipping, handling, customs and last but not least (depending on the country) the beloved import VAT So Uwe, you would actually tell someone who admits that they have no real knowledge of, or experience with, buying Japanese armor to buy the first armor shown to them (by an antique dealer not even an armor dealer). "Hey Dan, nice armor, yea buy it, dont bother to look around and see what else is on the market, dont bother to learn something about Japanese armor before buying, dont worry about asking the seller for better images showing each piece individually from both sides, etc etc, etc"!!!! Honestly Uwe, I expect more from you.
b.hennick Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Perhaps it is a language issue but the sarcasm is very clear to me.
estcrh Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Perhaps it is a language issue but the sarcasm is very clear to me. Berry, if Dan went to the Nihonto forum and posted that he knew next to nothing about Nihonto and was thinking about spending thousands of hard earned yen, euro, dollars etc to buy a sword seen by a friend in a Japanese antique shop there would be a collective answer of "NO, dont do that, take time to read and learn more, check out some of the recommended Japanese sword dealers, look around and do not rush etc etc"....but somehow for Japanese armor its ok for knowledgable (supposedly) members to say...."hey nice armor, yea buy it dude"....well I will always be the one to disagree with that, whats your opinion?
estcrh Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Eric, There is no going rate on what an armour should cost. Its all about what the seller is asking and what the buyer has to spend. I cannot understand why you are directing a potential buyer to shop around when the armour he has found is reasonable priced. On your list you have Jones & Jones (dead link) they have the kirisuke armour that I mentioned, it's just over 10K and again reasonably priced. The one above is far better, and you would expect to pay more for it. I'm networked to most of the dealers that sell kachu internationally and we often talk to each other about pricing. I'm very aware of market prices as I still sell armours all year round from my Gallery. So my opinion and advice to Dan is a professional one. Really...one dead link..oh my!!! Your advice is the advice of a DEALER, my advice is the advice of someone who once was in Dans shoes, I will always give the proper advice to any buyer. Dealers of course would like nothing better than for someone to buy what they are selling without the buyer asking questions, comparing prices, asking for more pictures etc etc.
Stephen Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Oh you two....got respect for both of ya but give us a breakfast!!! 1
DaveT Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 Dear Eric, I've been in Dans shoes as Ive been a collector for over 30 years. I'm not the seller of the armour, I dont even know the seller, therefore I have no vested interest in its sale. Nor have I attempted to approach the OP. My comments are based on the photographs and price. Members are suggesting that the armour is a good one, and priced according. Dan did the right thing asking, and we replied. But now you need to stop the ranting as its a poor reflection of this community if the thread becomes argumentative over logical.
Brian Posted September 5, 2017 Report Posted September 5, 2017 As Stephen said..give it a break guys.Points have been made. The OP has enough to decide I think, otherwise you are welcome to continue the advice via pm. Wish these threads weren't so predictable. 2
Recommended Posts