Help Understanding Transition Timing - Aluminum/wood Type 95S

[Bruce Pennington]

I have a Nagoya side-latch, aluminum handled Type 95, numbered Seki 202446. I also have a wooden handled "late war" 95, numbered 211894 seki. I have understood that the arsenals were given serial number blocks, and that the Nagoya arsenal had the 200,000 range. So my aluminum gunto, being 202,xxx, must have been made "early" in the production series. I've always assumed the assignment of these number blocks came early in the war, like right after the copper-handled NCOs, so 1938/1939. But these factories were cranking out around 8,000 blades per year EACH, so with the wooden-handled blade at 211,xxx, that would only take barely over a year to move from the aluminum tsuka to the wooden one.

 

This seems to indicate that the block assignment of numbers came, maybe AFTER Kokura Arsenal divided the 95 production to Nagoya and Tokyo 1st? Which puts the start of the production of the 200,000 series no earlier that 1940/1941? That would STILL put the wooden tsukas in production by 1942 vs the standard '44 and '45 timeframes we talk about.

 

Any help Stegel & Shamsy???

[Shamsy]

Morning Bruce,

 

Stegel can correct me if I'm wrong with any of this;

 

Yes I believe number were assigned in blocks to the supervising arsenal as you stated. These then seem to have been divided into smaller runs among the various manufacturers, some manufacturer are more prevalent than others and thus encompass larger ranges. Suya for example are the most commonly encountered stamp and prevalent maker, spanning the largest number range.

 

In the case of the cross over point between the side latch pattern 4 and wooden handle pattern 5, this occurred within 1943, with both patterns produced that year. The production volumes and specifics are not exactly homogeneous either, so estimating date ranges based on them is not ideal.

 

Oh, I'd just been chatting recently that I haven't seen a 95 post for a while and look what appeared!

 

Cheers, Steve

[Bruce Pennington]

Soooooo ...... I'm hearing you say "It's complicated."! Dang

 

Seriously, thanks for (I was going to say "clearing that up for me") the info Steve. This one of mine, came from the Seki Token Co., who might have been given, say 2,000 numbers, and it might have taken them 4 years or so to put those on the street?

[vajo]

I have also a nagoya arsenal type95 

It is "late stage" wooden handle with the number 202817

Maybe it helps.

 

[Shamsy]

I've spoken to Stegel and can correct 1943 to September 1942. So the transition took place a few months earlier than I previously stated.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Steve! With only 400 numbers between Chris' and my guntos, then mine was mid to late 1943 and his late '43 to early '44.

 

I like!

[vajo]

Interesting Topic.

 

Thanks to share.

[Erwin]

Hi all
 
I also recently purchased a type 95 wood version with the number 208054. Interesting on this version it is a black saya version which it took me a while to find.
 
Looking at the information above this one would than be dated late '44 I guess?
 
Kind regards
Erwin

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Nice find Erwin! I think that would be a safe guess. Late '44 to early '45. If I understand the saya history, the all metal saya came first, followed by the metal/wood combos. So your all metal saya would put this earlier in the timeline of the wooden-handled versions.

[Erwin]

Thank you Bruce,

 

The black version is pretty rare.

I am working on a photoshoot and will post some additinonal images in due time, just for fun

 

Have a great day

Erwin

[vajo]

Nice one Erwin.

[Stegel]

Good find Erwin!

Not much has been mentioned in reference books about the colour schemes available. As far as the Pattern 5 (first wooden handle with Steel scabbard) goes, Dawson's only mentions the drab olive green as the standard and the rarer black which you now have, but more varieties were produced.

There is also a darker brown, a jungle green and a winter camo... an off white (cream).

Here's a picture of some of mine, all are matching serial numbers, so scabbards are original to the blades with handles

 

 

[Erwin]

Hi Stegel,

 

That is truly an awesome collection you have there. Have not seen the off-white version yet but great to see all these variants in one single shot.

 

Thanks for sharing and have a great day

 

Erwin