Darcy Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 This was brought in last week by a fellow who's father was given the sword in Japan. They were under the impression that it was junk and didn't realize it was a nice gift. I believe it has been used to cut ham and for swordfighting by an 11 year old boy. Anyway, it is a good piece, and I thought I would put some snapshots up because it is a textbook example that should kantei based on these. Answer on Wednesday. Quote
Jean Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 I have only 3 seconds as I am already late for an appointment and I am probably totally wrong; Last pictures, at first glance, make me think of Tamba no Kami Yoshimichi sudareba but it is surely wrong :D :D :D Quote
Brian Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 I looked earlier, and despite not having seen sudareba in hand before, and working only from what I have seen in books, pics on the net and theoretical diagrams, it also made me think of sudareba immediately. Not quite sure if that is the typical Mishina boshi? But with what looks like textbook sudareba and hataraki rising almost to the shinogi, I would have to go with Mishina ha, and one of the Yoshimichi lineage. Tanba no Kami Yoshimichi, second generation? Brian Quote
pcfarrar Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 I agree it looks like a Yoshimichi, although I have no idea which generation. Quote
kitsune Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 Mishina school, but not shodai Yoshimichi Quote
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 Let's try... Etchu no Kami Masatoshi Quote
Darcy Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Posted March 26, 2008 Almost perfect! (ahem Carlos). The double-whammy, this is a two part kantei. Tell me more. Quote
Brian Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 Well..the "kami" kanji and the kiku-mon show it is the Kyoto branch of the Yoshimichi line. Second generation onwards? I would have to go with 2nd, 3rd or 4th. But need to research more before I can take a stab at which one Brian Edit to add..can we see a closer pic of the kami kanji? Can't really see if it is the Osaka or Kyoto style, and am second guessing myself) Quote
Jacques Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 Hi, I don't know Yoshimichi had signed with a tachi-mei, it is the first blade like this i see. Quote
Brian Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 (Where is the smiley for Doh!) I missed that. Good lesson on how to look at everything. Hmm..more research needed. taking a stab in the dark...I wonder if this could be signed by father and son, with Yamato no Kami Yoshimichi on the other side? (Edit to add.. I think the 1st generation (1644) Osaka Yoshimichi signed with a kiku, and I wonder if this could be a collaboration with one of him sons, Yamato no kami Yoshimichi?) Brian Quote
Jean Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 I'll check tonight if I have time From the Kami kanji, it seems to be the Osaka branch : http://home.earthlink.net/%7Esteinrl/yoshmich.htm Quote
Brian Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 Danny has a brilliant article: http://www.nihontocraft.com/Mishina.html I couldn't make out that kami properly, but it seems to be Kyoto branch to me. What confuses me is that on this page: http://www.ricecracker.com/info/yoshimichi.htm they say "Only the Kyoto Tanba uses the Kiku on the nakago" and here: http://www.juwelier-strebel.de/Asien/Japan/Katana.htm they say "The Osaka branch signed almost identical, but without the Kiku." But Osaka 1st gen is listed with the kiku mon in Danny's article?? Tanba (no) Kami Yoshimichi (Osaka)　丹波守å‰é“　大å‚OT1) Yoshimichi, 1st generation, 1644, Settsu, (Kiku) Tanba (no) Kami Yoshimichi (èŠç´‹) 丹波守å‰é“. He's the second son of the first generation Kyo-Tanba and was born in 1598. Received his title around 1644 -1647 and moved to Osaka. His work is very similar to the styles of the shodai and nidai Kyo-Tanba in sudare ba and kikusui ba No wonder us novices get confused :? The tachi mei is unusual, so I will still go with my flyer and say there is a mei on the ura and the omote. Or not.... hehe. Brian Edit to add: I now believe this is Kyoto branch from the blown up pic, fwiw. The query above is no longer relevant then, but still confusing if you are researching Osaka Yoshimichi with a kiku? Quote
Jean Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 Let's dive (and not sink ) Province : Yamashiro - Kyoto Swordsmith : Sandai Quote
Brian Posted March 27, 2008 Report Posted March 27, 2008 Dying to find out the answer, this was a good one. Any last guesses from anyone? Brian Quote
Stephen Posted March 27, 2008 Report Posted March 27, 2008 ROKUDAI YOSHIMICHI He is called Mishina Tokichi, recived title of Tamba no Kami in Horeki Sannen (1753). He is said to have become an excellent smith, and he died at the beginning of the Kansei era. (Fujishiro) page 94 Quote
Darcy Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Posted March 31, 2008 Sorry about the late reply... girlfriend was in town and my time was spent attempting to stop her from trying to reorganize my cutlery drawer and other such things! This confirms Stephen's kantei on the mei to be correct. The yasurime also match the Fujishiro example exactly. It is a tachi of about 66cm, date of Meiwa Ninen (1765), and note the insertion of the Chinese zodiac character. This is the item I was referring to in my old documents translation thread, as the other time I had seen this done. Makes me speculate that due to the size of the piece, it being a tachi and with an additional "year of the rooster" added, it was to commemorate something. Given the size, maybe a boy's first sword on reaching manhood? Quote
John A Stuart Posted March 31, 2008 Report Posted March 31, 2008 That was an interesting thread Darcy. i burst out laughing with your last sentence though, forgive me but how could it be a boy's first sword if he had reached manhood? :lol: I know what you mean though. John Quote
Brian Posted March 31, 2008 Report Posted March 31, 2008 Well...you woldn't say "a man's first sword on reaching manhood" As a teenager reaches that age, I think it is correct to say a boy reaches manhood. Good exercise Darcy, will look up the smith when I get home to learn more. That tachi mei must be pretty unusual for the Mishina school? Do you think it is restorable? A nice find from someone who probably thought they had junk. Brian Quote
Darcy Posted April 1, 2008 Author Report Posted April 1, 2008 You give the gift to the boy on the occasion of entering into manhood. In all societies, a boy enters a rite of passage and exits it a man. After he's a man there's no point in giving him anything :-). Quote
Jean Posted April 1, 2008 Report Posted April 1, 2008 Dear Moderators (Brian, Stephen) associated to Darcy, After passing a few years on earth, I am seriously thinking of entering into manhood. Before undertaking my move, I would like to know what gift could I expect from you (It has to be worthy or I shall still stay a Kid) " " " " " " " " " " " April's Fool but once a year it is time to be jolly Quote
Brian Posted April 1, 2008 Report Posted April 1, 2008 Drat...was just going to send you a sword to commemorate the event...and then you went and said you were joking! Milt is the only one who gets to play the mischevious kid here. In fact, maybe I should change his title from Ronin to Oni or Kappa! :lol: I'll resist the urge to play some pranks on the forum today. Have a good one folks. Brian Quote
Stephen Posted April 1, 2008 Report Posted April 1, 2008 dang time zone i was going to do a AF joke, about hearing from a polisher who uncovred a Muramasa wraped in a gunto steel, after over polishing it...ya all have a merry fools day. Quote
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