Help with translation, please....

[Jock]

....sorry for the mei - pic - it was the right way when I uploaded it - let's blame the computer.... )

[Jock]

...comment to one of my previous pics - the one showing the mune: the mune looks like being out of centre = my lack of photographic skills (light reflection covers parts of it) - it is dead centre.

 

Following the back of the nakago:

[Jock]

.....it has a temperline along the whole cutting edge - wavery in the first 25% of the blade and then fairly straight - about 7-8mm wide....

[Jock]

.....file-work nakago......

[Jock]

....Did I mention that whosoever comes up with an answer about the mei - I buy you a drink! (this means a lot as I lived for 11 years in Scotland! - that's where they started calling me Jock!)

 

Thanks for your help and knowledgable opinions.

 

Regards,

 

Jock

[Jock]

Hi folks,

 

Forgot to mention one point: The seller claimed that he got the blade over 10 years ago and that is was in WW2 fittings that were in very bad conditons. He (claims) that he got new fittings /koshirae from Fred Lohman - Fred confirmed that the fittings are from him.

 

Just to avoid any mixup concerning the Koshirae.

 

Regards,

 

Jock

[Brian]

I'll await confirmation from one of the better translators, but could it be a strangely written Masashige? 政 重 Otherwise the Tsugushige mentioned previously.

Looks like a genuine blade, WW2. Not sure if Gendaito or not. There was a Masashige in Nagasaki.

 

Brian

[Bugyotsuji]

 

"Bo/Po Chen" Lovingly cut, possibly by laser, two Chinese characters = Paul Chen

 

 

:lol:

 

Brian was headed the right way. For a hint, start with the Japanese characters for "Poland" and then play from there with Chinese characters. Are you really Scottish, Jock? Where's my malt?

[Jock]

Hi Piers,

 

You lost me at "Poland" - strange coming from a German - to answer your question: I was born in Germany lived for 11 years in Scotland - am married to a Norwegian woman and have a son born in Scotland and all of us live in Australia - we classify ourselves as "Earthlings" )

 

Help me with the "Poland thing" ....please

 

Jock

[Jock]

Hi,

 

Do you mean:

 

 

æ¾æž— æ”¿é‡ (Matsubayashi Masashige) ??

 

 

Regards,

 

Jock

[John A Stuart]

Jock, here is an example of a (Paul) Chen Po nakago and mei from the Casiberia page that deals in Paul Chen Hanwei material. John

[Bugyotsuji]

By the time I write this, someone else will have figured it out, I suspect! LOL :lol:

 

Poland in Japanese is ãƒãƒ¼ãƒ©ãƒ³ãƒ‰ã€€or, in the older characters they mostly borrowed from the Chinese 150 years ago 波蘭 Po-ran which is a Chinese phonetic rendering, Wave Orchid, meaningless if you look at the characters.

 

The Japanese character for Po there 波　can be read Po or Bo in Chinese depending on which system of Romanization you use.

 

Chen (Chong) is a very common Chinese name, and uses the character for heavy, é‡ã€€which can be read as Shige in Japanese.

 

The family name is kept, but many Chinese people take a 'Christian' name which is often phonetically similar to their 'first' name.

 

My guess is that Paul Chen was born Chong Bo, or Chong Po, é‡ã€€æ³¢ and he became Paul Chen to the West, like Jackie Chen or Jackie Chan. As a Japanese sounding name it's not bad, reversed from Chinese but keeping the Western word order: æ³¢é‡ã€€

 

In fact I'd lay 100 USD on it...

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Piers,

 

You lost me at "Poland" - strange coming from a German - to answer your question: I was born in Germany lived for 11 years in Scotland - am married to a Norwegian woman and have a son born in Scotland and all of us live in Australia - we classify ourselves as "Earthlings" )

 

Help me with the "Poland thing" ....please

 

Jock

 

You didn't open the spoiler, I guess!

[Jock]

.............I see what you say Piers, just one point: I owe a paul chen kami katana - one of the better ones from Hanwei....if I compare the mei/natagos/temperlines etc etc - I can't see that there should be a similarity in quality. Do you say that Paul Chen produced higher quality blades in the past?

 

Regards,

 

Jock

[Jock]

Hi Piers,

 

The following 2 pics are of my Paul Chen Kami Katana - Chen claims that this is the katana with the best of the best and highest in Quality koshirae etc etc.....

 

Regards, Jock

[Jock]

....and this is only the natago...same counts for temperline etc etc...

 

This is what caused me to doubt your statement - giving the benefit of a doubt....has Paul Chen ever produced such quality?

 

Regards,

 

Jock

[Bugyotsuji]

.............I see what you say Piers, just one point: I owe a paul chen kami katana - one of the better ones from Hanwei....if I compare the mei/natagos/temperlines etc etc - I can't see that there should be a similarity in quality. Do you say that Paul Chen produced higher quality blades in the past?

 

Regards,

 

Jock

 

Are you saying you knew all this already? You already had a Paul Chen blade? Why didn't you tell us? How much time have people poured into trying to answer your question for you when the name was in front of you all the time? Please tell me I am mistaken!

 

PS If you read my posts you will see I have made no comment on the quality of the object. Your pictures were not very clear anyway. I thought I was trying to help out reading a Mei, but now I feel angry and used at having wasted my time... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Jean]

Piers has all rights to be angry and to express it.

 

I have already seen, in the past, posts where some members had already the answers but were keeping questionning / poking as to test or trying to make a laughing goat of other members.

 

It is a waste of time for people who gives freely their time and try to share their knowledge.

(BTW, I am not including myself)

 

That's only a "reminder" of what must be courtesy.

[Stephen]

I think there's a bit of a mix up here, the new sword is the one we were working with him on, he has on the other hand a Paul Chen it should not have been brought in to the thread but Bugs joke on PC prompted that, Jocks new blade is mounted in new Koshirae as I expected from his pix. Jock you have a posted a bit of repeats and ill delete them for sake of space, more pix of the blade if you please, looks like a gunto that got the Special treatment "I can make that blade pretty" by a novice.

[Bugyotsuji]

Stephen,

 

Are you sure? He posted a picture of a Nakago and said:

"May I ask for your valuable help? Who can tell me anything concerning the signature/smith/history below?

Thank you very much for your kind help.

Regards,

Jock"

 

We eventually managed after much convolution to establish that the two characters of the Mei actually read "Paul Chen". He should have known that as he already has at least one other Paul Chen blade. Were we being tested???

[Stephen]

Bugs, i dont think were being tested, the cut of the mei and quality of the file marks dont match in any shape or form. It might read Po Chen in chinese ...i was stuck on this before and wont put any more time into it. If ist PC so sorry. back to bed

[Bugyotsuji]

OK, if I have offended or jumped too far to conclusions, then I apologize to Jock! Sorry Jock.

(But how do I claim my free drink?)

[Brian]

I also don't see the connection, in that I don't see that mei anywhere in the Paul Chen katana mei...but then I haven't examined it closely.

The first mei looks vastly superior to the later Chen pics. No testing or anything here, just a connection not made. I also didn't see it as Paul Chen, however if we are confident that it reads as such, then I guess that's the end of the story. If that is the case, I would take that up with the seller strongly.

Does anyone have an example of this 2 character Chen mei on any of the swords they produce?

 

Brian

 

PS - Once established, we will of course cease to discuss this blade, as we do not spend our time on repros. Just want to make sure everyone is 100% sure of the outcome.

[Bugyotsuji]

Look at John's post & pic at 5:45 on the previous page. He shows a nakago of Paul Chen's, and you can just see the one character we were all wracking our brains over, the 1st character of the two, eg Nami æ³¢ The other is covered (intentionally or not) by the sticker...

[Brian]

Ahhh...I didn't make the connection between them, and I am sure Jock didn't either.

I guess that settles it. These are quite well done apparently

 

Brian

[Jock]

I'm sorry I don't see what you, Piers see - the 2 blades I have taken pics of the natago from are

 

a) my new one

 

b) the Kami from Paul Chen

 

I personally do not believe that the first one is a Paul Chen and even if it reads McDonalds in Indochinese or Pygmiragamy the difference in workmanship is too much - I bought a Kami from Chen for half price on ebay and compared it with the blade - these have nothing in common. If you tell me that Chen had a different production line that copied WW2 smith's work more detailed etc then I'm more than happy to agree - sorry Piers I don't!

 

And yes I take some of the comments above as an insult! Looking at the Mei of the both blades as well as the natago in total - sorry I can't see the connection - indicating that I misled people and purpously wasted their time......thanks! Offence taken!

 

Thank you very much Stephen for discerning my real intentions and I also

believe that your statement is closest to describe the blade that I hold in my hand.

 

Regards,

 

Jock

[Brian]

Jock,

 

Bugs already apologised for any offence, and that is enough for me. He likely knows that PC does indeed produce a large range of quality, and I hear that they even make a forged and folded blade from (a version?) of tamahagane. So it is quite possible and even likely that this might be a better range from them. Don't judge purely from the stock photos that were posted. They were just to show the kanji useage. I am sure someone will link to the better range soon.

This thread has already gone on far too long, so unless there is some useful info posted soon, I am going to lock it and let it slip away.

 

Brian

[Jock]

Hi Folks,

 

Following you will see a closeup of the Chen Mei and the other Mei - I certainly don't have Piers' superior discernment to see what he sees.

 

Regards,

 

Jock

[Jock]

.....and the other one:

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

I'm wondering why there is a discuss about chinese item on a board dedicated to NIHONTO