about the mock wooden blade

[Guest pleasemx]

Hi every one,

 

I have a saya at hand. It's so beautiful in my eyes that I'm now considering assemble a Koshirae with it and keep them as my collection.

I think the tsuka and tsuba are all easy to get, but I don't know if it's possible to build a wooden blade (is it called tsunagi??) which can fit this saya , tsuka and tsuba. Since it's the usual case to have a blade at first, and then build Koshirae and wooden sword according to it.

 

Do anybody have any experience or idea on that?

 

Thank you very much for help!

[Marius]

I am not an expert, but I am almost sure that in order to make a proper tsunagi, you would have to have either the blade or the saya would have to be disassembled, which, of course, you don't want to do.

 

I guess that one could make a short, makeshift tsunagi with a wooden habaki. This could do the job.

 

Question is: is it worth it?

[remzy]

I think that once you have all the part that visualy fit together, it could be very easy to do a short tsunagi to make it all hold together for display.

 

Assuming you are somewhat agile with your hands and can carve some wood without damaging anything, it would take some time to make sure it all fit perfectly, of course... but nothing is quick in the field of antiques.

 

Is it worth it? only the interested person (pleasemx) can answer that... i wouldnt mind having one of those around, but i am lacking the fittings!

[DSweet]

I would think it could be done, but it would take patience, skill, and a lot of trial and error.

 

Without the sword, it sounds like it would be a pain... If i was in your position, i would probably make a careful attempt at it. Though i like wood carving personally, and have always liked doing things with my hands. I am currently in the process of carving my own bokken atm. Though that is probably easier then what you are asking.

 

-Donovan.

[Brian]

I actually don't think it would be too hard to make a half-decent tsunagi without the blade. Since it is all hidden, it doesn't have to be full length. It is just to hold everything together.

I would start out by finding out the shape of the tang. Use something soft like balsa-wood and keep adjusting where you see the pressure marks slowly until you have the basic shape. Then using that as a template, you make the actual tsunagi. Must be something else that you can use to find the inside dimensions of the tsuka.

All in all, since wood isn't that expensive, I think it could be done fairly cheaply. Once you have a working one, you can always make one out of decent wood. I don't think a tsunagi has to be of honoki wood?

 

Worth doing imho. (in my honest opinion)

 

Brian

[DSweet]

Balsa wood is a great idea for making a template. So soft that you could easily see the impressions of where it isn't fitting right. For the actual tsunagi i would pic something hard, but still EZ to carve, and cheap. Maybe white oak.

 

Remember though, with any wood carving you want to make sure the wood is well "seasoned". Needs to be completely free of water, and not just dry to the touch. It is also good to store wood in a similar humidity to where it will be displayed/stored once carved ahead of time. This will ensure that you have minimal to no warping after you have done all of the hard work carving and getting it to fit just right.

 

You can easily get good wood for carving from another woodworker, or woodworking club in your area. You could easily use stuff from a home improvement center, but i would store that stuff for awhile in the house before carving.

 

-Donovan

[Aloof Pegasus]

Which style of bokken, Donovan?

 

Last time I was in Egypt being without, I had to make a bokken from a cut down shumaa- the Egyptian jo.

 

Only had a leatherman and getting any kind of shinogi was next to impossible. Shum is very hard wood.

 

Luckily this was a kashima shin bokken so straight and heavy.

 

(sorry this is

 

Philip

[DSweet]

I still have a lot of work to do on it. And since i recently moved and have yet to find where i put my Japanese style plane...

 

I was planning on doing a chisel tipped aikiken. Making it from White Oak. Not really the strongest wood for a bokken, but it is EZ to find good white oak as apposed to something like purpleheart or ipe.

 

*Edit*

I have too many hobbies. Silver smith, Wood worker, soon-to-be Blade smith, and about a billion other that i won't list

 

-Donovan

[Aloof Pegasus]

Sounds nice.

 

Maybe Pleasemx cud use a soft-wood bokken as a starting point?

 

Philip

[Grey Doffin]

For the actual tsunagi i would pic something hard, but still EZ to carve, and cheap. Maybe white oak.

I wouldn't use oak of any type as a tsunagi, for 2 reasons. First, oak splits easily along its grain and is more prone to checking than many other hardwoods; I would expect trouble in areas of short grain. Also, oak has a naturally high tannic acid content and any iron in the koshirae might be corroded from contact and humidity.

I don't think a tsunagi has to be as hard as oak either. Soft maple doesn't have the negatives and it is straight grained, easy to work, and readilly available. Some of the birches, basswood, and popple also come to mind.

If I were making a tsunagi blind (without a blade to copy, something I've actually done, by the way), I would start with cardboard. Once I had a shape that fits easily into the saya I'd transfer to a piece of wood of the proper thickness and plane the surfaces. The tsunagi doesn't have to be a tight fit in the saya; the habaki (also wood) does that.

Because oak splinters more easily than other hardwood, it might not be the best choice for a boken either. Maple or beech seem appropriate.

I've been a professional furniture maker for over 30 years, which is why I think I know a bit about wood.

Grey

[Stephen]

some very good points Grey.

[DSweet]

I am not an expert, and i do not claim to be one by an means. But white oak is commonly used for bokkens. Now i agree, there are plenty of woods that would do a better job. I mentioned Ipe and Purpleheart for instance. But if you find a nice white oak with a tight grain pattern, it should hold up very well in the dojo, and resist cracking or splintering. I picked my peice of oak pretty carefully. Very straight grain throughout, no knots, and the tightest grain i could find.

 

Now you do bring up a good point when you mention that oak is high in tannic acid. I was a bit hesitant to mention using white oak for a tsunagi since i know certain woods are not choosen for saya due to the fact that they are corrosive to metals. I probably whould have researched before posting, but im at work and i try to not slack off too much

 

Thanks for the info/pointers. There is always more to learn, and i welcome any help.

 

*edit* I guess it should also be noted that American white oak is a worse choice when compared to Japanese white oak, which is traditionally used for bokken. (or so i have read it is a softer wood and more prone to splitting). My bokken will not be for dojo use. If i were to make one for actual use i would probably pick a better choice of wood. Hickory at a minimum.

 

-Donovan

[Aloof Pegasus]

Shinai splinter (bamboo)- fukoru shinai can break too. Certainly kashima shin fukoru shinai are extremely hard to acquire so most practioners use Japanese white oak bokken.

 

They can be 'broken in' with a regime of oiling and light strikes with a wooden mallet a bit like the way willow cricket bats were broken in.

 

In Kashima shin the bokken is regularly struck (although often allowed to swing with the blow) and they do not break. I've had one from a famous maker in Miazaki for over ten years and it is without cracks- although as lumpy and knotty as the white pine tree it once was!

 

Using American white oak for an aiki bokken ( assuming this is what you are practising) is perfectly ok as not much real wood-to-wood contact occurs.

 

Philip

[Guest pleasemx]

My gratitude to those who are so kind and warmhearted to help me. thank you very much!

Now by you help, I think I have some idea:

Maybe I can first build a mock blade using hardboard. it's not hard word.

Then I can find some good wood, and carve it into the proper size and shape.

I will have a try. Hoping I could be so lucky to succeed.

Thank you all!