Kantei

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi all,Gimei or not,that's the question!The Oshigata is from a Waki of a German auction to come.If you have one or more of the following sources,it's quite easy to solve the question.Ludolf

Token to Rekishi 612 p.6 (dated 1742)

Shinto Taikan p.642 (dated 1744)

Iida p.319 (dated 1745)

RAI Showa 52 N0.9

[Brian]

The most glaring difference that is immediately apparent is that the chrysanthemum petals are cut clockwise on this one, whereas the shoshin mei has them anti-clockwise.

Ref: http://www.ricecracker.com/japanese_swo ... a/sk14.htm (which btw seems quite a good deal to me at 8K, with origami)

 

Brian

[huntershooter]

Hello Ludolf;

I have neither of the references you list.

However I do have a wakizashi signed Hisa Michi .

The mei on "my" Hisamichi is the edigu kiku. I always assumed it was the nidai or sandai because of this.

The glaring difference I see in your posted oshigata is the direction the petals of the kiku turn back-to the left. They turn to the right on my blade and in Shinto Shu.

If I'm missing something please let me know.

Regards.......

[Ludolf Richter]

It's not the direction of the petals!There are examples of his Kiku with petals counterclockwise.Some of his petals touch the adjacent ones,other are clearly separated.Even the center of the Kiku differs from one Mei to the other.I don't know the reason,why he didn't use always the same Kiku.Ludolf

[John A Stuart]

I'll take a stab at this, Ludolf. Looking at other examples, I see one glaring difference. The mei is aligned wrong. Especially the Hisa kanji is not centered like my examples. In fact the whole mei seems to bow. Not enough examples to be sure, but until proved otherwise I would suspect this to be doubtful and would get a professional appraisal before buying. John

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Hisamichi sandai used eda kiku mon.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Hi Ludolf.

Can't say if it's enough to rise the possibility of a Gimei

as the oshigata is not fantastic quality, but here is what

seems to me *possible* differences, and I would like to have your

opinion about my guesses to let me learn something.

 

[Ludolf Richter]

Carlo Guiseppe is right.Look at all the horizontal short strokes ("arrows"):from left to right!Sandai Hisamichi (and Shodai & Nidai) always chiselled them from right to left.Other differences with certain Kanji are not as obvious.This Mei is Gimei!Ludolf

[USMC-LCPL]

Carlo Guiseppe is right.Look at all the horizontal short strokes ("arrows"):from left to right!Sandai Hisamichi (and Shodai & Nidai) always chiselled them from right to left.Other differences with certain Kanji are not as obvious.This Mei is Gimei!Ludolf

Excuse my lack of experience, but I'm assuming that you made that observation based upon the fact that the thicker portion of the short stroke is on the left side, correct? I didn't know that this was an indicator of the motion of the stroke until now, but it makes perfect sense.

 

And, with comparison to the example provided by Brian, you appear to be absolutely correct. Look at the bottom of Brian's Mei: Clearly Right to Left short strokes.

[huntershooter]

Quite interesting Ludolf.

Do you suppose it is possible the direction of the horizontal short strokes could have been changed, as the petal direction?

Do you have several examples of shoshin mei where the short stroke direction is consistent?

[Brian]

Hi,

 

I would trust these guy's call, and it is well spotted. A very good exercise.

Remember that these tagane are like our own handwriting. If you tend to write your letters of the alphabet a certain way, there isn't much chance you are suddenly going to write the strokes backwards. Of course, when you chisel a stroke, you are always going to show the direction of the stroke from thicker to thinner. (Same as a pen stroke)

 

Brian