Wtb: Ww2 Generals Grade Shin Gunto

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hello all, looking for Generals Grade shin gunto, ideally with Tassel. Background and provenance even better.

 

Best regards

John

[lonely panet]

Hi John.

 

sad that yoy havnt had a reply yet.

 

due to the price's on the tassel alone  maybe put a rough price range to let people know your serious

[paul griff]

Hello John,

Good luck with your quest and I hope something suitable comes your way soon...Hoping to buy a similar item myself but probably next year ( my pot is pretty empty at the moment ! )...

Regards,

Paul.

[Stephen]

I remember back when gen tassels would bring a premium of 3-4 hundred low grade would be 50/75$

my how times have changed and prices are hovering around ten times that. 

Just to give you a idea of what your asking for. 

[Mark]

i remember some years ago (you can guess how long), i passed up a mint mantetsu with a generals tassel that was priced $1000. Instead i bought a shinto katana from the same seller for a bit more that that.......... strange how things work out, that Shinto katana is probably not worth much more than i paid and the Mantetsu/tassel is probably worth 6-8000 maybe more....  

[BenVK]

Apart from the tassel, which let's face it, could have been added by anyone at anytime, what identifies a General's grade shin gunto?

 

I know it's different for kyu gunto because of the addition of tortoise shell grip.

[paul griff]

Hello,

Provenance and documentation ! I like to collect gunto' that have preferably both or failing that either , otherwise,

you are right Ben....It's the price of the gunto plus the knot !

Regards,

Paul..

[Daniel]

Hi John

 

See you're in Austraila. Maybe Doug Austin can help you?

 

http://www.guntoartswords.com

 

Good luck

Best Regards

Daniel

[PNSSHOGUN]

Thanks for the replies all, I have had a few private offers and am in contact with Doug.

 

I am also red with anger at some of these lovely little anecdotes you all seem to have about Generals Grade swords for pennies on the dollar!

 

Apart from the tassel, which let's face it, could have been added by anyone at anytime, what identifies a General's grade shin gunto?

 

I know it's different for kyu gunto because of the addition of tortoise shell grip.

Generals Grade often have the highest quality fittings and finish, hard to tell sometimes but the differences are there. Family Kamon, gold plating, high grade samegawa and ito. Not uncommon to find them with Mantetsu blades either.

[paul griff]

Hello,

Yes you are right there John....The Bonhams 'Conflict of the 20th century' sale on 21st oct 2015 had a couple of jems ! Lot 75 was a stunning type 94 with gilted fittings and also lot 14 the sword of Major General Kenji Matsumoto,a type 98 with full provenance...Sadly wasn't in a position to buy at the time ! Both swords and indeed many others in that sale are fine items for any collection...One day hopefully...!

Regards,

Paul..

[BenVK]

To see some General Grade swords with rock solid provenance would make for a fascinating forum thread.

 

Unless one already exists?

[Shamsy]

Generals Grade often have the highest quality fittings and finish, hard to tell sometimes but the differences are there. Family Kamon, gold plating, high grade samegawa and ito. Not uncommon to find them with Mantetsu blades either.

Very much more likely to have a Shrine sword, Yasukuni is what I'm referring to, or an ancestral blade. Fittings would be custom made and high quality. In fact I'm actually quite surprised to hear that there was a Mantetsu found with the tassle. Those were pure combat swords forged using modern technology. To me that feels like a a respectable gentleman turning up to golf in a pimped low rider instead of a Bentley.

[IJASWORDS]

A General tassel does not make a General sword, Neil.

[SwordGuyJoe]

A General tassel does not make a General sword, Neil.

What he said.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Still searching, also open to trades.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Still looking....

[Volker62]

Hi John

 

 

Difficult to find with appropriate proof of origin!

 

Own such a dream like one!

 

 very early date blade by Kajiyama Yasunori '94 pattern with pinned Kabutogane Koshirae,with Tassel, ex Collection from the

 

former head of Bayer Leverkusen in Tokyo!

 

He bought this sword in 1967 from a Generals widow,well documented..:)

 

 

Good luck!

 

Volker

 

 

[Volker62]

sorry forget to mention

 

silver Mon on fuchi " Matsunaga Mon"

[Ian B3HR2UH]

I have seen a number of Generals swords with impeccable provenance, all being in the hands of the families of the men that they were surrendered to . Not a mantetsu in sight . Personally I would be very sceptical of a Generals sword with a mantetsu in it . Makes sense as most men who held that rank would have been commissioned years before Mantetsu blades were being made . That is to say they would already have their sword .  Having said that in the Australian War Memorial there is a sword surrendered by General Kanda on Bouganville which has an Emura blade in it . A contemporary description of the sword indicated that it looked like it had just come out of stores ie it was too new looking to have been worn by the General . Perhaps Generals had a few extra swords to present to worthy subordinates. There is a letter in the War Memorial published in Fuller and Gregory ( I think ) that suggests this is the case. I did come across General  Kandas  Fukuto  which had an old blade in it, although I couldn't get the tsuka off . Brigadier Garrett who had received this sword had given it to his driver . Unfortunately the widow wasn't interested in selling !

Ian Brooks

[PNSSHOGUN]

2 hours ago, Ian B3HR2UH said:

I have seen a number of Generals swords with impeccable provenance, all being in the hands of the families of the men that they were surrendered to . Not a mantetsu in sight . Personally I would be very sceptical of a Generals sword with a mantetsu in it . Makes sense as most men who held that rank would have been commissioned years before Mantetsu blades were being made . That is to say they would already have their sword .  Having said that in the Australian War Memorial there is a sword surrendered by General Kanda on Bouganville which has an Emura blade in it . A contemporary description of the sword indicated that it looked like it had just come out of stores ie it was too new looking to have been worn by the General . Perhaps Generals had a few extra swords to present to worthy subordinates. There is a letter in the War Memorial published in Fuller and Gregory ( I think ) that suggests this is the case. I did come across General  Kandas  Fukuto  which had an old blade in it, although I couldn't get the tsuka off . Brigadier Garrett who had received this sword had given it to his driver . Unfortunately the widow wasn't interested in selling !

Ian Brooks

Hi Ian, here is one that is documented as surrendered by Major-General Tamoto, though oddly it retains a field grade tassel (also listed in Shokan p.209). https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.php?acc=1966-04-27-1

 

As for multiple swords I suspect some Generals almost certainly had multiple, if General Yamashita is one to go by the average IJA General may have had half a dozen if they played their cards right......

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Still searching....

[John C]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:02 PM, PNSSHOGUN said:

Still searching....

John:

How many ww2 Generals' swords were produced (i.e., how many generals were there)? Although I suspect most survived in one form or another, I can't imagine the availability is too great.  

Just curious,

John C.