Gendai Kagekiyo?

[Gabriel L]

Hello,

 

Someone on Reddit posted the nakago of a blade signed Kagekiyo saku. The only gendai smith I could find is Matsuba Kunimasa's early mei. Superficially the meibun style seems similar but it would be nice if someone could corroborate — anyone have images of Kunimasa's early mei, or know of any other gendai Kagekiyo?

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/translator/comments/635rx3/japanese_to_english/

[SwordGuyJoe]

This Kagekiyo is from the lineage of the gi-to school of far western Japan, with the forge found in China.

 

Kidding aside, this looks like one of the recent fake Gendaito that we have talked about frequently.

 

I'm sure this is trying to be Kunimasa, but it certainly isn't.

[Gabriel L]

Wow, recent fake gendaitō? That is news to me. I'll do a search on the board but also if you want to expound I'm all ears. That's pretty disappointing and surprising to hear, nothing about this piece jumped out at me except a certain roughness / lack of fluency in the mei (which I was attributing to this possibly being a very early work by Kunimasa san).

[SwordGuyJoe]

Here are a couple topics relating to this.  

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/11762-its-raining-gendaito/

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/22104-gendai-questions-about-blade-for-sale/

[Brian]

Who signs directly down the middle of the shinogi?
Agree it looks like a Komonjo style modern "item" but only saw the one pic. Mei though, looks completely bogus

[Gabriel L]

Ah — the usual suspect(s). Now that you point it out, the photo is an absolute match in style to that particular source. 

 

Well, that's too bad. Amending my post. Thanks Brian & Joe.

[Gabriel L]

…on a follow up note, I am somehow perpetually caught off guard by the lack of honesty that exists not only historically but still today. What's the point? Is this really more profitable than just doing real work? Do these people really not care? 

 

I have a suspicion that if I'm lucky enough to live to 100 I'm still going to cling on to some degree of naïveté on this matter. It just doesn't compute. 

[SwordGuyJoe]

One of the first things to look for is a date.  It is law for a the smith to date the blade and none of these that I have seen have been dated.  They all have the same nakago-jiri.  They have altered their yasirime from time to time, so you can't just go on that.  When these first started to come out, they had shirasaya, usually with the integrated habaki.  Then they were sold as just the bare blade.  It makes me think that since people are starting to catch on to the "game" that is being played, you'll start seeing them in shirasaya again soon - if not already.  When the post on the first link I gave you came out, they were faking the big gendaito/shinsakuto names (Okimasa, Kunimasa, Sadakazu, etc.).  Once they found out that people weren't buying that these swords were made by those big names, they moved to lesser known (but still real) smiths.  Similarly, that didn't work long either, so they transitioned to Japanese names that weren't actually sword smiths.  The blade characteristics are frequently choji midare, though there are others, with very rough activity in the hamon.  The hada is usually pretty rudimentary and often has loose grain.

 

Once you see about a half dozen of these things, you can spot them from a mile away.

[SwordGuyJoe]

  On 4/3/2017 at 6:18 PM, Brian said:

Who signs directly down the middle of the shinogi?

Sadakatsu - Maybe this is a rare signature of his

[eternal_newbie]

Boy, Chinese fakes sure have come a long way since I started collecting... I remember the good old days of wheel-buffed temperlines, engraved signatures and tsukaito that looks like it was made from someone's leftover shoelaces. You kids these days, you don't know how good you have it!

[BenVK]

As I wrote in this thread, I don't believe these particular blades that Komonjo and others sell were made in China. More likely Japan.

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/22104-gendai-questions-about-blade-for-sale/?hl=komonjo&do=findComment&comment=224614

 

Why do I suspect that? because I own a couple of swords that were made this year by one of the best forges in China. Did a lot of research first as well before ordering. Chinese forged blades just look...err, different!

[SwordGuyJoe]

Okay. Maybe yes, maybe no. At best they're illegal, gimei blades, at worst their Chinese fakes. Either way, why would someone buy one unless dup'ed into believing they're real gendaito? Maybe iaido but I'm not sure that I would feel comfortable swinging a blade of unknown origin and questionable/unknown manufacture quality and methods. But that's just me. If someone wants to believe these are Nihonto, but illegal, it makes no difference to me.