Horimono question

[sencho]

I recently saw a tanto in Yokohama, with a horimono that passed right through the blade.... i.e it was carved on both sides so that there were areas that you could see right through.

 

It was an incredibly beautiful piece of workmanship, and the only one I have ever seen. I am wondering if there is a technical term for this kind of horimono and if there are any other examples available.

 

Cheers

[Bugyotsuji]

Away from my friends and my books at the moment, visiting the far side of the planet, but yes, I have seen such a horimono, not too long ago. I asked if it wouldn't weaken the blade in some way and was told afterwards that such a question to the very famous carver himself (Yanagimura Senju) in front of a group of admirers was 'shitsurei'. Egg on my face again. Depending on the technique, it can actually strengthen a blade, I was told.

 

Sencho, the usual expression for see-through, as in Tsuba, is "Sukashi"; among the uses of this word, it can also mean a watermark. You may be looking for a more specialized word, though?

[Eric H]

Sanko tsuka tuki ken ranma sukashi hori bonji soe-hi

 

On a tanto by Tairyusai Sokan

 

Eric

[Grey Doffin]

The first instance of sukashi hori on a tanto that I can think of was done by an obscure smith from Soshu: Masamune.

Grey

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Another example very well done by Naotane.

 

[Brian]

Grey,

Is Guido's evil twin staying over at your place for the weekend? :D

I think there is an online pic of the Masamune sukashi horimono out there somewhere.

That horimono is certainly absolutely stunning. Does anyone remember the url of that website devoted to modern high class horimono? Have lost it for now.

Would love to see more pics of these art carvings.

 

Brian

[sencho]

The first instance of sukashi hori on a tanto that I can think of was done by an obscure smith from Soshu: Masamune.

Grey

 

:lol: thanks Grey.... Jacques, Eric and Piers...

 

I will take pictures of the tanto in Yokohama next time I am there and post them here...

 

Is the sukashi hori peculiar to tanto generally? I would have thought that it is not particularly practical on a larger blade...

 

Cheers

[Eric H]

Brian,

 

Here it is

 

http://world.choshuya.co.jp/engrave/index.htm

 

Eric

[Bugyotsuji]

It was a while back, but in my memory the one I saw was a modern carving into a famous old katana.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Better late then never. So this thread will shows some different examples for future references :

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Sencho. For those who didn't catch it, Eric's description above contained one more useful word:

"Sanko tsuka tuki ken ranma sukashi hori bonji soe-hi"

 

Ranma is a type of sukashi that describes the 3D scenes carved in wood that you can sometimes see above Japanese sliding doors.

[DanielLee]

Here's an example from Aoi Art which was listed today.

 

https://www.aoi-art.com/sword/wakizashi/08171.html

 

Daniel

[Henry Wilson]

I have seen a few in the DTI all of very high quality to my squinty eye. How could a cut away horimono NOT weaken a blade and strengthen it? Metal is being removed all the way through and lots of little angles are being put into the middle of the blade. These little angles would encourage cracks at the narrowest points if pressure is applied to them via the blade. It looks more like the rise of the art sword as opposed to the weapon.

[sencho]

Sencho. For those who didn't catch it, Eric's description above contained one more useful word:

"Sanko tsuka tuki ken ranma sukashi hori bonji soe-hi"

 

Ranma is a type of sukashi that describes the 3D scenes carved in wood that you can sometimes see above Japanese sliding doors.

 

Thanks Piers, and thanks Henry who's post has led me back to this thread.. (been at sea for a month and missed a lot!)

 

I will go back to the sword stor as it is 5 minutes walk from me in Yokohama and see if the Tanto is still there. The Horimono, as I remember was of incredible quality.

 

Henry, your point is well taken, but as I have only seen these on Tanto so far (I have not clicked on this threads like as yet) I would suggest it would not be under the same stresses and strains as a larger blade.. I would further suggest (but do not fully know) that with the correct structure it could be incredibly strong... not quite sure of the physics of it actually becoming stronger though... but there are many things I do not know!! :lol:

 

Cheers!

[Brian]

I think while a horimono (such as a hi) might make a blade stiffer in one direction, it can never make it generally stronger. Removing metal can only cause weakness in the other directions. This was discussed somewhere here by Darcy. Similar to an "I" beam...it resists bending in one direction, but is not inherently stronger in other directions.

I agree with Henry that this takes the sword more in the direction of an art item and away from a weapon. The one posted recently is also mentioned as having had this done much later in its life. Beautiful though.

 

Brian

[Guest reinhard]

I agree with Henry that this takes the sword more in the direction of an art item and away from a weapon.

 

Here we go. The "sukashi hocho MASAMUNE" was never made for, nor meant to be used by a common soldier in battle. Although I'm sure, it would have suited this purpose as well.

 

reinhard