Kwakernaak Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 Hi Gents, Spotted this rusty blade (wakizashi) for sale on a local auction site. Just started collecting Japanese swords and have MUCH to learn. Could anybody give advice on the maker, age and reasonable value for this blade? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Kind regards, Peter Jan.
paulb Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 the condition of the polish hides any detail of the blade. The signature is of Kunisuke but looks to be poorly cut and unlike the smiths mei, therefore I think gimei. To learn from this you would need to have it polished so you can study the hada and hamon which are currently invisible. The cost of such restoration would exceed the final value if it is as I suspect gimei. If you are looking to buy it to study and learn from it I would recommend you don't as there isn't much to learn from its current condition If you want to buy it because it may appear cheap and a good potential investment be very careful as the cost of restoration would far outweigh it's ultimate sale value. If you want it just because you want an authentic Japanese sword at a low cost then it may fill that need. 2
ROKUJURO Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 Peter Jan,please compare with KAWACHI no KAMI KUNISUKE, early EDO JIDAI. The photos do not allow a guess whether the signature is genuine, the qualiy of the blade or any possible flaws, and important details like HAMON, HADA, and HATARAKI. So no estimation of value is possible.In case you are tempted to buy it, you should consider the additional costs for polishing, HABAKI, and new SHIRASAYA, which may add up to $ 2.000.-- or more. Without such an investment, the blade will face further deterioration and cannot be appreciated.
Red Sun Posted January 29, 2017 Report Posted January 29, 2017 Hello Peter, I strongly suggest that you buy a blade in full polish from the outset. Little can be learned from a rusted out blade. You will get much advice here to read and study hard - which is totally correct - but the study is much more fun with a blade in hand to compare against what you are reading. The search is part of the fun - the sales and wanted section here is a good place to start.... happy hunting
Kwakernaak Posted January 29, 2017 Author Report Posted January 29, 2017 Thanks for your comments guys. My initial reason would be to save this blade and restore it. I have become interested in the science behind polishing and would like to make such a blade like this my first ginny pig... In addition my other hobbies include woodworking and would also love to make a Saya for it. Obviously you would not attempt such traineeship on an extremely valuable blade, but on the other hand you would not spend all that effort on something which is not authentic Japanese with somewhat quality. I am sure some of you would frown at me attempting a polish.....
mywifesgunakillme Posted January 30, 2017 Report Posted January 30, 2017 Yeah, you just opened up a can of worms. Not going to go over well.
Greg F Posted January 30, 2017 Report Posted January 30, 2017 Hello Peter there are counless threads previously about this and seems to be getting more frequent. The fact of the matter is that unless you go to Japan and train under to professional togi you will ruin the blade or at the very least take off valuable metal that cant be replaced and if your lucky a togi will be able to restore it afterwards but even then you make the blades life shorter so to speak. I think we need a section for all the discussions on this topic to direct newbies for them to read and understand that it is impossible to self teach polishing Nihonto no matter who they are and what back ground they have. All the best. Greg
Red Sun Posted January 30, 2017 Report Posted January 30, 2017 Regardless of the authenticity of the name - it does otherwise look correct to be a genuine nihonto if that is the sort of opinion you seek. The World would certainly be a better place if it was resurrected from it's current condition. But chances of a hidden treasure are slim. You will be kicked from pillar to post for wanting to polish it yourself. No matter how naturally good at fine craft somebody might be it is a VERY specialised skill. It is the wrong way around to do things. For example without studying blades in full polish how can you even know what end result you are trying to achieve! Blades are lost forever to history because of amateur polishers so you will find justifiably strong opinions on the subject. Many will tell you off for having a go at polishing - but we have mostly all been there i suspect 1
Kwakernaak Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Posted January 30, 2017 Yes indeed I thought I would open a can of worms...hope nobody takes offence. But on one side it is suggested that the value of the blade will never be worth the cost of the accepted way of getting it polished. So what does one do with such a blade. Leave it rotting away??? I fully agree that a national treasure or a very significant blade (if it can be recognised as such through the rust) should not be touched by an amateurs (like myself). But the fact of the matter is that this will inevitably happen when polishing costs are in price range of 2 - 3 K$.... One needs to start somewhere. In any case I appreciate your comments. I'll be quite and start reading a bit more...
paulb Posted January 30, 2017 Report Posted January 30, 2017 Peter Jan I have no wish to re-open a subject that has been discussed, often with great emotion, many times here. But to answer the points you raise and hopefully explain the apparent contradiction of saying a blade is not worth restoring but then you shouldn't attempt to polish. The problem is you start on something that is generally regarded as not important. You produce results which please you and give you confidence. So you progress on to something else, again you can't see what it is but with the experience you have gained you are confident you can do a good job. Then you produce something like the many examples seen here over the years where a perfectly reasonable, or even important work has been damaged beyond repair. If you cannot identify what a sword is (or at least have a good idea) how do you know what it should look like when polished? from your opening mail it is apparent you have not yet gained the experience or knowledge necessary to decide whether a blade might be polishable let alone attempting to do it. The fact is you, like the vast majority of us here, are not able to judge whether a sword is high quality or otherwise when it is in a poor state of polish. Most can see when a good blade has been totally screwed up by a bad polish. You don't leave it to rot. you stabilise and conserve it by oiling and storing in a suitable environment. Sorry but this topic has been done to death many, many times even very recently. The bottom line is just don't do it. 4
Jamie Posted January 30, 2017 Report Posted January 30, 2017 If you can't identify this, why would you think you can make it better? Your questions alone scream that you shouldn't touch it! Do you even know your intended result? Clearly not. Not trying to offend.
Kwakernaak Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Posted January 30, 2017 I have no more comments guys. I get the picture. Thanks for the advice. Kind regards, Peter Jan
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