Unknown Motif On Menuki

[FlorianB]

Hello,

I saw this pair of menuki offered on the Aoi-Art-page : https://www.aoijapan.com/menuki-mumei-tomoe

 

 

I wonder, what is shown here? There’s no need to talk about the tomoe-mon, but I have no idea what the strange form in the background should be. Is it some kind of implement?

Maybe You could clearify it.

Best, Florian

[Fuuten]

This is a real hat scratcher as it makes me think of a bunch of different themes. But all of them are guesses.

 

I think the most straight forward match to the motive is one of those horse bit parts, on both sides of the .. i am not familiar with the real lingo but ones of the mouth bits on both sides. But I might as well be wrong.

[John A Stuart]

I think the whole thing is the Kamon, not just the circle with the Santomoemaru. John

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Hi John. Isn't a bit too elaborate with all that horseshoes to be part of a Kamon ?. I'd agree if the "boat" was flat or rounded, but this way seems too elaborate... Having said that I've not the palest idea of what it might be.

My 2 cents..

[Henry Wilson]

The triangular arms on each side are probably so that the menuki can be wrapped under the tsuka thread with out covering the design that is meant to be seen IMO.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Japanese Horse bridle-bit       

[John A Stuart]

Maybe too elaborate. They tend that way sometimes, especially when it represents two families. It reminds me of this shape, sort of. John

[Pete Klein]

Henry has a good point about facilitating mounting.

[FlorianB]

Tomoe-mon are often depicted on roof tiles as protective charms.

I wonder if the upper half depicts a simplyfied roof which is mirrored to get a balanced design.

Florian

[Guido]

What Henry said. Kamon-menuki are usually made with three or two kamon in a row which makes mounting them quite easy. However, when only one mon is used, some extention is added to hold them securely in place under the ito (except when mounted on a tantō where they are glued in place and no addition is needed). Those extentions come in a variety of shapes, and I wouldn't read too much into it.

[Guido]

Here are some examples of the row type:

[raaay]

And another similar style of mounting

 

[IJASWORDS]

Got a similar Motif on WW2 KAI GUNTO, one side only on TZUKA.  

[Baka Gaijin]

Hi Ray,

 

The outer looks like an elongated version of the  Kamon Matsu Kawa Bishi ("Diamond" Rhombus form - Hishi gata).

 

The inner looks like Maru Ni San Go San Kiri (Three Five Three petal Pauwlonia within a circle).

 

 

Hi Neil.,

 

The central Kamon looks like Maru Ni Katabami (Creeping Wood  Sorrel within a circle).

 

The outer pair are a little unclear, but as it is a Kai Gunto, probably the standard Maru Ni Yamato Zakura (Japanese Cherry Blossom witihin a circle)

[FlorianB]

Guido, I get Your point, but the presented extensions depict pincers, bars, ken and even the rhombic design in Ray’s menuki can be easily identified as matsukawabishi.

I‘m afraid to become a nuisance, but taking into consideration that the metalwork artists get their motifes out of everyday life, nature, history, religion and so on I can’t imagine that the design shown in this peculiar menuki should mean nothing. It is too exceptional and elaborate executed to be a result at the whim of an artist.

However, be it as it may - perhaps future will bring an answer.

Florian

[Jean]

Or Ford....

[Guido]

Florian, of course they mean something - IMO just not more than an elaborate means of supporting the mounting of the kamon proper. But NMB would be a pretty boring place if everybody agreed with me.

[Pete Klein]

​"It is too exceptional and elaborate executed to be a result at the whim of an artist".

 

​Umm -- that's why they're artists.   
 

[Markus]

Hm, I think that the motif might be a so-called temochi-daiko (手持ち太鼓, lit. "hand-held drum") that comes with handles and which is today basically a kid's toy. And I think, as mentioned by Guido, that the left and right protrusions are for securing the menuki under the tsuka-ito.

 

[FlorianB]

Certainly I know about the general function of these protrusions but I’m eager to know what the artist depicts in them. So I risk to annoy - or bore - You all.

Concerning the function of an artist I have been misunderstood. I meant that we can’t compare a traditional metalworker with a contemporary artist producing - for example - abstract pictures or objects and interpret these however he likes. So the design of the menuki could’nt be abstract but was derived from anything of Japanese origin.

The suggestion it could be a drum is very helpful. Thanks Markus! Indeed I forgot that tomoe are a common decoration on drumheads and I will research into this subject.

 

Florian

[johnnyi]

If I may chime in; I think you might be able to explain away the two protrusions on the side as a means to bind this, but not so easily the two openings at top and bottom which would be unnecessary, which all leads me anyway, in the thinking this means something. Something horse related? , as earlier suggested? Harness (bit) , 36 teeth?   far fetched I know, but..

 

John I

[Guido]

Another interesting example - I wonder what the artist intended here ...