Unknown Artist Or New Go Of A Known One?

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi experts,

I have a Tsuba signed "Yamashiro ju Tomosada" mit a seal.There is no Tomosada from Yamashiro in Haynes or Wakayama:a hitherto not yet described artist or a new Go from a known one.It looks like  typical Bushu-style also to be found from certain Choshu-arist (e.g.Inoue).What das the seal tell?

[christianmalterre]

is it in the Kuznitzky ?

 

Christian

[Ludolf Richter]

I found 2 examples with nearly the same motif,both from Choshu Yaji-family Tomohisa,one from the Museum of Fine Arts-Boston,the2nd from an auction catalogue where this Tsuba was lot 540.Either "my" Yamashiro Tomosada took Tomohisa's motif or vice versa or there was a 3rd artist!?

Christian,I am sorry but I don't have Kuznitzky's Artibus Asiae "Han & Kakihan"

I am still hoping to get the meaning of the seal from an expert of our board.Ludolf

[kissakai]

Isn't the first posted image much better qualty and the two in the second post?

[christianmalterre]

Ludolf,

 

please do compare the your´s Tsuba with this one...

 

Dale Meiners/Mieners ? collection

"Bushu Ju Masaiye / Masaie" + Kao

 

(pictures taken from Andy Quirt´s site) (nihonto.us)

 

Christian

 

[Ludolf Richter]

Thanks!All with nearly the same motif.I bought  the Tsuba from the collection of Paul de Coninck.He was not successful in identifying this Yamashiro guy although he had a lot of experts from whom he bought his Tsubas,as his index card shows.Maybe this motiv was en voge in many schools around 1700-1750?Ludolf

[christianmalterre]

i did not proof the either or the other side yet Ludolf!

i just am getting the more and more sceptic about their´s "business"....

 

i do not think that this attribution does ground to Mr. de Conick jbw...

not at all!

 

this attribution rather sounds like (these many other errors we do constantly occur) into the "way" these auction houses like Klefisch (now Van Ham) or Lempertz do work...

 

sometimes? it may be certainly much more fruitful (for both sides) so to ask a connaissant collector. ??? (not?)...(instead this way they do act and do since years prefer "contracting" studends and non jet immatriculatet "pre experts" for their´s interests....

(do i smell "the sound of money here" ????)

 

not?

 

sorrowly...not the only case here....

last years auctions were a "horror" in many times...LOL!

 

a

 

Christian

[Ludolf Richter]

Hi Christian,

I have made only good experiences with Trudel Klefisch for more than 20 years.Other than with the German auction houses of Lempertz or Nagel  she is really an expert. By the way she is a good friend of Mr.Haynes and helps him with the revision of his index books.

With this Tsuba I got Paul de Coninck's index card with his handwritten comments to that Tsuba.

I had forgotten that I own Martin Sesko's book "Identifying Japanese Seal Script".It took me 2 hours to go through it but I didn't find the specific 2 characters of the Yamashiro Tomosada's seal.Ludolf

[SteveM]

I think the seal is just one character. I looks like 保. It is the same character that is on the Masaie tsuba. Maybe it points to a specific school or workshop. 

 

It isn't a kao or a go. It's called 金印 kin'in (gold seal), but this is about all I know. 

[MauroP]

May I suggest a different transcription of mei from Ludolf tsuba? Possibly 山城住家貞 - Yamashiro jū  Iesada.

The tsuba posted by Christian could be produced in another province:  勢州住正家 - Seishū jū  Masaie.

Bye, Mauro

[YOJIMBO]

Only to info , personal experience : NAGEL and LEMPERTZ . They are both very unserious companies. One robs you of hidden fees and the other is really an employee EXPERTS (Asiatika). I do not understand how they work . Actually, I know: Among the blind the one-eyed is king.

[Ford Hallam]

Is it possible this seal was added later?

 

It's a completely different colour of gold for starters, a different alloy composition, to the gold used everywhere on the tsuba.

 

The gold on the leaves and elsewhere was applied by means of the nunome zogan technique and from what I can see where the cross hatched ground that wasn't eventually covered with gold the texture has been worked smooth. On the seal, though, despite the ground being flat and therefore making finishing much easier, the coarse hatching of the ground is still very clear.

 

And to my eyes the seal is just too closely squeezed up against the last kanji of the mei due to there being no more room below.

[SteveM]

I think the original Ludolf tsuba is 友貞 (Tomosada) as initially thought. 

The tsuba added by Christian is, I think, 城州, rather than 武州 or 勢州. 

Wakayama mentions nothing about a kin'in for either smith/craftsman.