My 1942 Munetoshi

[Daddy Cool]

I thought I would post up some pictures of my new acquisition (my 2nd ever sword, and probably my last for a while as this is an expensive hobby!). Happy to be corrected on anything I write below:

Its a Munetoshi, made in Nov 1942, in Type-44 mounts:

The production number (443) is also found on two of the seppa:

 

The blade appears to be (to my untrained eye) in fantastic condition - though my poor camera skills perhaps don't convey that. How would you describe the hamon?

 

Downsides? just that its missing both mekugi (I believe these are screw type?) so if anyone happened to have any spare please let me know.

 

I am right in thinking this is *Yamagami* Munetoshi, of the RJT, am I? The bit that confuses me slightly is that the mei on my sword is apparently what he used from 1943 onwards, but mine is dated Nov 1942 (or do we think that's "close enough" in terms of the switchover point?

 

Would love to hear from anyone that can give me further information about it - alternatively, if anyone wants further/better pictures I can try.

 

Cheers

Chris

[pcfarrar]

Good smith, I sold one several years ago and it was a really nice blade.

 

 

[Bazza]

G'day Chris,

 

I'm sure you will be interested to read about this sword:

http://www.legacyswords.com/fs_ant_daito16.htm

 

It is now owned by a friend of mine here in Australia.

 

Bestests,

BaZZa.

[Daddy Cool]

G'day Chris,

 

I'm sure you will be interested to read about this sword:

http://www.legacyswords.com/fs_ant_daito16.htm

 

It is now owned by a friend of mine here in Australia.

 

Bestests,

BaZZa.

 

Cheers! Thankfully I paid a fair bit less than that, but then the one you linked sounds like it is quite a unique length. I also notice it doesn't have a stamp number like mine - what does that suggest - that it wasn't specifically made for military use?

Also his signature seems to be the earlier munetoshi signature (mine the later one)

Either way, I bet your friend is pleased with it, as I am with mine

[pcfarrar]

The sword on Ted's website was the one I sold him.

 

It has an interesting back story which I'm not sure Ted was aware of.

[Daddy Cool]

The sword on Ted's website was the one I sold him.

 

It has an interesting back story which I'm not sure Ted was aware of.

Spill the beans then!

[Stephen]

CR

 

the one in the book doesn't have stamp but the one Ted sold does, looks like 11 pix toward bottom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit btw very nice find!

Edited December 29, 2016 by Stephen

[Daddy Cool]

CR

 

the one in the book doesn't have stamp but the one Ted sold does, looks like 11 pix toward bottom.

 

 

edit btw very nice find!

Cheers!

Ah - I wasn't sure if that was "11" or just two random stampings - but yeah, you're probably right.

I wonder who has #1....

[Bruce Pennington]

Chris,

 

What a beauty! Great Star stamp too! Any idea what the circle stamp means?

[Stephen]

think it matsu stamp Bruce, should come up here in search

[SwordGuyJoe]

Nice! He's not one of Shigetsugu's "Three Birds" but a good smith nonetheless! Nice sword.

[hxv]

I used to own a Munetoshi with a cirle Matsu stamp. I like Munetoshi's work. I currently have one by his brother Akihisa.  Very nice sword as well.

 

Hoanh

[reeder]

Nice sword.

 

The Matsu stamp was used by him and his brother, Akihisa.

[David Flynn]

I don't want to be a downer, but the kanji for Toshi is different.   The placement of the signature is also different.

[Daddy Cool]

I don't want to be a downer, but the kanji for Toshi is different.   The placement of the signature is also different.

In what way do you mean the kanji is different - are you referring to the fact that earlier than late 1942 he used a different kanji, as discussed in this thread:

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/8546-survey-of-gunto-contract-numbers/

 

Or do you mean that my "Toshi" doesn't look like the generally accepted 2nd version of his signature?

Also, can you let me know where you would expect the signature to be?

 

All the features on my blade look consistent with this sword - made about 3 months later I think:

http://quanonline.com/military/military_reference/Japanese/sword_51.php

 

 

Also, I have been chatting with George via PM - he suggested I check under the Habaki for the polishers signature (a barcode of sorts) and sure enough, its there - I didn't notice it before. 7 parallel lines...

[reeder]

I think you're ok with this sword daddy cool. All looks good to me.

[David Flynn]

I believe it's a genuine Munetoshi, just not a Yamakami Munetoshi.

More research needs to be done.

Check Yamaue Munetoshi.

[reeder]

I believe it's a genuine Munetoshi, just not a Yamakami Munetoshi.

More research needs to be done.

Check Yamaue Munetoshi.

 

From what I understand only Yamakami Munetoshi & Akihisa used the Matsu stamp.

 

Anyways, check this post out by George - http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/8546-survey-of-gunto-contract-numbers/- Looks like both forms of "Toshi" were used by this smith.

[David Flynn]

You misread this, George was using a hypothosis about the different kanji for Toshi. He was not difinitive about the two signatures.

Apparently there is even another Munetoshi.  Ikeda Munetoshi.

So now we have three Munetoshi, all RJT.

[Daddy Cool]

Thanks - that's interesting. Any other info you have about any of the Munetoshi smiths would be most appreciated. I'd love to be able to confirm which made the sword.

[george trotter]

Hi all,

Just happened to see this discussion. Maybe I can help with answers to a couple of queries on the Yamagami brothers Munetoshi and Akihisa...both good smiths.

 

The following info is taken from swords. The progression of the early tang numbers don't seem to make sense...that is the total swords made to  Sho 16/9  is 308, but the total number made by Sho 17/11 (over a year later) has only risen to 422. I can only assume that we don't know exactly what these numberings mean?

 

Anyway, here goes....

Munetoshi and his brother Akihisa ran a sword forge together in Niigata Ken and started using numbers early on in their career.

The earliest/lowest numbers I have seen (no Matsu/circle or star stamp) run from 106 dated July 1941 to 308 dated Sept 1941.

The first  "Matsu in a circle" stamp I have seen starts in April 1942 (sho 17/4).

The Star stamp appears about Nov 1942 at number 422 and continued until the end of the war.. They continued using the Matsu/circle stamp into their RJT period, but stopped using it in about late 1943-early 1944.

When they became RJT in Nov 1942  Munetoshi started to use his "second" kanji . Akihisa never changed his mei as far as I know.

The lowest "Matsu/circle" number I have seen is 11 dated sho 17/4 and the highest "Matsu/circle" number was 1377 dated sho 18/10.

From about 1944 Munetoshi starts to use a kana/number code such as "TA 2353". As this is the same code used by other RJT smiths I think it was imposed on RJT smiths by Army HQ.

While 2353 seems a fairly high number of swords to produce between about 1941-1945 remember that both brothers shared the numbers (so the total is about half each).

Munetoshi returned to his "first" kanji after the war.

Akihisa (younger bro.) became more prominent after the war.

About whether Big Daddy's Munetoshi is Yamagami Munetoshi I can say that it definitely is his work. Apart from Japanese dealers confirming it, if you look up ONO Gendai Toko Meikan 1971  p.109 you will see his history and a pic of his mei . See also Slough p.121 and P.32 and you will see this mei and his details.

The suggestion it might be Yamaue Munetoshi or Ikeda Munetoshi is a reasonable query, but I can say to you definitely that "Yamaue" is a mistaken reading of "Yamagami" (Kami/gami can also be read "UE". Hi also cannot be RJT smith  Ikeda Munetoshi as Ikeda is from GIFU and used a different "TOSHI" and worked in a different style.

 

I hope this helps,

[Stephen]

God i love this place, where else would one find such info? Thanks GT!!

[Daddy Cool]

God i love this place, where else would one find such info? Thanks GT!!

Haha - I was thinking the same!

Yep, thanks George - fascinating info

[george trotter]

Thanks guys...just a nerd taking notice of swords and taking notes...much of the info provided by members here and the web, so credit to all here.

You might like to know (if you own a Munetoshi or an Akihisa) that Akihisa was the "best trained" as he was 8th student of Kasama Shigetsugu and 11th student of Kurihara Hikosaburo Akihide (from whom he took his "Aki" character.

Munetoshi was the 12th student of Kasama Shigetsugu.

So, either one a nice sword to find, although post-war collectors prefer Akihisa..

Regards,