Yamatorige Meibutsu For Sale!

[drjoe]

in case this hasn't been posted yet (apologies if it has).  i'm told that it was indeed purchased by the city of Joetsu.

https://www.joetsutj.com/articles/37390279

 

[Fuuten]

I saw this, 350 million yen or something?

[SAS]

That is an amazing flamboyant hamon!

[drjoe]

yes, ¥320,000,000.  as for the hamon, it's why the blade was called "yamatorige," translated as "mountain bird (pheasant) feathers."

the billowing juka choji hamon has served as the inspiration for much of ono yoshimitsu's work, in his seemingly unending quest to produce utsushi of the yamotorige.  in addition to the saka choji, the "two layer" area of the hamon near the mune is characteristic.




 

[Greg F]

Great looking Hamon. It reminds me of one that was made with out clay during quenching. Thanks for sharing Joe.

 

Greg

[Gakusee]

Could someone post images of non-quenched hamon for education purposes please? In the other thread about the same blade there was almost speculation that this blade was also created without quenching but I am doubtful

Thank you,

Michael

[SAS]

Hamon can be created without clay insulation, but hamon cannot be created without quenching. The hamon made without clay are formed by heating to a critical temperature, and the steam vapor jacket causes an insulating effect which creates the hamon.

[mywifesgunakillme]

Is that a record price for a Nihonto?  I've never heard of a sword being worth over 2 million dollars.  It's an impressive, and beautiful piece for sure.

[drjoe]

the hamon that forms with hadaka-yaki (clayless quench) occurs both because of "vapor jacket" effects as well as, i believe, differential heating of the edge/spine.  many koto bizen blades were made in this fashion.

in the modern era, the late sugita yoshiaki was known for his hadaka-yaki blades.  sadly, since his passing, photographs of his work are now few and far between.

the czech smith pavel bolf also commonly works in this style (http://www.katana-kaji.cz/en/).

on the other hand, i'm told that ono yoshimitsu's yamatorige utsushimono are made with clay.  here are some examples:

http://www.toukenkomachi.com/index_ja_tachi&katanaA011115.html

https://www.nihonto.com.au/html/ono_yoshimitsu_tachi.html

 

[Guido]

on the other hand, i'm told that ono yoshimitsu's yamatorige utsushimono are made with clay.

 

I can confirm that - it's also not something he makes a secret of.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

the hamon that forms with hadaka-yaki (clayless quench) (omississ).  many koto bizen blades were made in this fashion.

 

in the modern era, the late sugita yoshiaki was known for his hadaka-yaki blades.  

 

Joe, you forget the attempts of Yoshihara Yoshindo.

The technique was already present in some Tohoku blades of VIII century and after, till to the passage to Wanto and later supposedly  maintained in certain traditions. However I'd not bet my life that Yamatorige was made the same way. Blade near Hamachi has been purposedly left softer for the reason we know, and I think it's hard to tell the vapor to not interfere in that area only, leaving a good hamon anyway. Same for the Boshi area. Maybe a skillfull use of very thin clay? Hereunder a WarabiteTo that presents a flamboyant section were insulation wasn't enough/well applied. AFAIK none of the blades made today with Hadakayaki, no matter how important the Smith, can be compared with the hamon of Yamatorige. So far Ono and clay come closer. IMHO.

[drjoe]

yes, of course i know that yoshindo is well versed in hadaka yaki -- in fact, i saw him do one last year and posted a brief video that i shot of it on youtube:

)

he was, after all, ono yoshimitsu's teacher.

 

i never said that the yamatorige was made by hadaka yaki, though it seems open to question.  since ono-san has been able to recreate it with clay, it is certainly possible that the original was done in the same fashion.  it could be argued however that ono's is "cleaner" than the original.  and when i first saw sugita yoshiaki's work some years ago, i would have sworn clay was involved.

[drjoe]

oh boy, looks like i was late to the party with this post after all and this topic was already discussed here a few months back.

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/20772-possible-the-finest-sword-with-a-hefty-pricetag/

 

good to find a working link to sugita yoshiaki's work also:

 

http://www.murakumokai.jp/sugita/sugita-top.htm

http://www.murakumokai.jp/sugita/ysi.htm

http://www.murakumokai.jp/sugita/13y.htm

http://www.tousyoukai.jp/kikaku/mamori/mamori5/5_toushin_9.jpg

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

good to find a working link to sugita yoshiaki's work also:

 

http://www.murakumokai.jp/sugita/sugita-top.htm

http://www.murakumokai.jp/sugita/ysi.htm

http://www.murakumokai.jp/sugita/13y.htm

 

http://www.tousyoukai.jp/kikaku/mamori/mamori5/5_toushin_9.jpg

Nice HI-res pics. Thanks for sharing.

 

The short blade in particular reminds me of some ancient Tohoku blades hardened without clay.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

 it could be argued however that ono's is "cleaner" than the original.  and when i first saw sugita yoshiaki's work some years ago, i would have sworn clay was involved.

 

Might be the difference in steels used and repeated polishing play a role in this feeling. As per Sugita Yoshiaki's excellent work certainly it is needed to watch very close and attently to get the difference between the two ways of hardening. Present days Togishi makes wonders.

 

As per the genesis of hadaka yaki might be this have some interest to you :

 

Quote:

However, some blades seem to have experienced repeated re-tempering such as the Warabite-tô excavated in Negishi, Kurihara district, Miyagi Prefecture in the possession of Mr. Matsumori Meishin, City of Tsukidate in Miyagi Pre-fecture or the example excavated in Iwate Prefecture (exact place of excavation unknown), in Masakuni„s possession, or the so-called „Maigusa-tachi“ (nagasa 77,3 cm, sori 2,5 cm), Kanagawa Prefecture.  In old documents on swords  Masakuni found out that additional measures to increase the hardness of a cutting edge – that means not only by applying a yakiba – were applied to softer steels. This is described by the term “uzumi-yaki“ , which means to fire an ob-ject by inserting it completely in hot ash. This might suggest that with this additional measure, eventually warabiteto were heated by sinking them entirely in hot ashes of the cooled charcoal fire. It Seems to be the description of a re-hardening at lower temperatures, around 400° C. Six Form I warabite-tô from the Tôhoku area up to Hokkaidô were polished, and each of them was hardened with uzumi-yaki. Among such swords in uzumi-yaki, there are examples with an extremely soft hitatsura-like yakiba, and also pieces in which it seems that the kissaki area was re-tempered. All of these blades don´t show a hamon the way we know it, but rather a strong utsuri. All this might suggest the swords were hardened without (or with poor) clay cover, and that the difference in hardening between the mune and the ha is due only or mainly in the difference in cooling rate caused by the different thickness of the blade. It is possible that this process later evolved in the one that some present day Tosho suggest is at the origins of Kamakura Choji Hamon achieved without clay but with better steel, better smithing skilfullness and higher temperatures.

 

Unquote.

[drjoe]

Thanks Carlo; very interesting -- what is the source?

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

The link under my signature.

 

It seems that the timeline is utsumi-yaki then hadaka yaki in Jokoto then  present day yaki-ire in Wanto, with some Hadaka Yaki surviving in fully developed Nihonto for a while and in certain traditions.