Our Swords Future

[IJASWORDS]

Most of my "sword buddies" both here in Australia and in the USA are in their 60's and 70's. We love our sword/militaria collections, and want them preserved even when we depart this mortal coil. A recent topic of conversation, is what happens to our collections when we move on. God forbid, they are left to rust away or sold off by un-knowing relatives to junk dealers.

A sword buddy tells me his greatest fear in life is that his wife would sell his swords for what he told her he paid for them!!! I think a lot of us would fall into this situation.

I have come to an arrangement with a fellow collector, that on either of our demises, we guide and help our families manage their swords. This is not morbid, but a practical solution.

I think this topic certainly comes under the umbrella of sword preservation and should be addressed. There is the potential for good collections to be lost or broken up. Is there some thing NMB members could offer if it a concern to others?

I want my swords to be around for another hundred years, but not necessarily in my family. They wouldn't be appreciated or cared for. Neil.

[Stephen]

Capital idea Neil, something everyone should have our mind on even if  mid age or any age.

God forbid a accident happens that takes one away from their collection and its left to a auction house who lets some kid win a katana to swing around in its back yard.

[tokashikibob]

^{For some of us this situation is one way on how we acquire our collections.   It is of great interest when a collection comes on the market as there are too many pieces usually for the collecting community to absorb in the matter of a few minutes time in the auction crowd or when someone responds to a advertisement..  Guys like me (The newbies) cannot shop at Aoi art often.}

^{Best Regards,}

   ^Bob

[ggil]

For those young collectors with kids (got a 10 year old), ideally we would involve them with collecting if they show

Interest. Luckily we collect things that have a universal appeal, I think. Anyway, my kid came with me to last months NCJSC meeting. She has been eyeballing all my swords especially my navy dirk with its koshirae and I've told her it's hers when she gets her bluebelt in BJJ (which will likely take her a solid 8 years, as these things generally aren't given to kids). She has been taught to respect the swords and bow to them (she doesn't get it of course yet). At the meeting she wouldn't dare touch any blades on the table even though she knows how to safely handle nihonto. I am hopeful to pass my love and respect of nihonto on to her. Maybe someday she will even want to be a polisher or smith. We can dream! Other than that I plan on giving away my pieces not selling them, and to folks who I know will carry on preserving them. My collection is low end though, if I had medium grade stuff the monitary value would probably encourage selling rather than just giving away. These swords would be a big responsibility that I may not want to put on my kid or friends.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

For when I'll pass away, I have left to my wife and sons adresses of people they can trust on. However my son now 20 y.o. seems very interested in mainteining them. Namu Amida Butsu...  

[Shamsy]

I admit to the occasional stress over the thought of my passing and having my collection broken up and sold. As a whole it is a fairly nice lot of swords, but apart does not equate to much. I believe I will probably gift or sell the lot together, specifically stating they stay together. Then my effort to gather them has not passed in vain.

[Bruce Pennington]

Obviously family and/or friends deserve to benefit from our collections when we pass on, but if anyone lacks an appropriate affictionado --- PM ME!!!!!

[Bugyotsuji]

If anyone does not like the look of Bruce's visage above, then please send them to me!

[charlie1]

I could only hope my collection is passed onto someone who really cherishes it. As one of the younger collectors here on the forum. I will do my best to encourage other new collectors. I believe encouraging new collectors is the best long term solution to preserving swords. I also stress over the fact who will I have to just talk about swords in the future? My mentors are twice my age and some in poor health. I talk with them constantly and I can only hope they will be around for long time.

 

Charlie

[Bruce Pennington]

If anyone does not like the look of Bruce's visage above, then please send them to me!

 

Good one Piers! You got me! Neil, good topic for discussion. The last of the WWII generation are gone, almost completely, and these swords and what they represent are coming to us from their grown children. We are bearers of thousands of legacies. As a hobby, it is fun and something we enjoy, but we all know that it represents something more, don't we.

[IJASWORDS]

Charlie, I am in the older age group, and my only mentors/buddies are also in poor health. 

Bruce, the children of WW2 Vets are probably in their 60's as well!!!

We need new younger generations of collectors coming through.

Neil.

[charlie1]

Neil, Part of the difficulty is the high cost of swords and lack of knowledge. This leads many first time buyers to get "taken" with their first purchase. Many stop right at the first purchase after a bad experience. The reason I got hooked was because my now good friend gave me a hell of deal on papered Shin Shinto navy sword. He knew it was first sword and he took a nice percentage off to encourage me. That was all it took for me to catch the sword bug. First, impressions are important!

Charlie

[dominnimod]

I wouldn't worry gentlemen, there are already younger generations of collectors, you just need to wait for them to come.

For example, i'm 19 years, and i have been collector since always almost. Started collecting Lego as a kid and moved to Militaria as i grew up.

Now i have been interested in nihonto and katchu for around 3-4 years,since i joined a martial arts club, and i know of other nihontos collector around my city who are 20-30s.

Also, i don't see many swords rusting in garages thanks to internet, people didn't had that in the 50s 

 

Jose

[IJASWORDS]

Jose, GOOD ONE!! Hope you and your friends continue to appreciate and preserve the NIHONTO.

[The_ozzy_samurai]

Problem solved!! Just leave them to me

[David Flynn]

When one's dead, one's dead.  What happens then is in the lap of the Gods ( by the way, my God's better than your God).  What Neil has said makes a lot of sense. Most of our kids (mine included), have no real interest in Japanese swords.  I understand  that, upon my passing, it is for my family to do as they please with my collection ( hopefully they'll make a good quid). As far as selling collections as a whole, I have found (from the ones I have seen) that, generally they either, don't all sell, or most of the values aren't realised. Saying this, what actually happens after my passing, is beyond my control.  Of course I could put provisions in my will, but frankly, why bother. What I suggest to my kids is, if they like a particular sword, then keep it. The rest sell as they see fit.   However, I believe they  would be better selling them piecemeal.

 The thought of one keeping their collection intact, to my mind, is just vainglorious.  This is just one's mind grasping whilst still alive.  Practicality, should rule the day.

Yes it is a shame more young collectors aren't coming through, but I remember when I was young, my main concern was providing for my family.  After the kids grow and things stabilise, more money becomes available, then serious collecting may begin.

[Shamsy]

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/17127-when-the-collecting-is-over/page-1

 

When one's dead, one's dead.The thought of one keeping their collection intact, to my mind, is just vainglorious. This is just one's mind grasping whilst still alive. Practicality, should rule the day.

I would politely but vigorously disagree. I think it is the greatest shame when a notable collection is broken up upon the death of the custodian. Now, I'll qualify that I'm not talking about the few bits and bobs I've collected here or there. I'm referring to the collections that receive titles like ' largest ' or ' finest '. A couple of examples to clarify perhaps? The collection of Japanese bayonets belonging to Raymond Labar, or the collection of African throwing knives of the National Institute of Ethnology Leiden. Where a collection of significance is broken up it likely becomes diluted into several small (and still fine) collections that are unlikely to achieve the same prominence. Most likely there will not be a collection to match it any time soon after, if at all. What a shame it couldn't have been maintained and even added to so that it could continue to be viewed, studied and enjoyed as a single piece by everyone. Of course the only real hope one would have for this to be the case is to gift such a collection to a museum or the like, but this very topic was discussed a few months back and the reports on museums and their handling of artifacts was not encouraging. Take a look at the topic I've attached.

 

So you can try to avoid worldly care or attachments to your collection and shrug off whatever happens after death, but I suspect that I'm not alone (even if I'm the only one willing to say it) in hoping my small efforts can go to something greater than a random assortment of people with a passing fancy and the money to fulfill it. My hope lies in finding someone as passionate and respectful as myself and gifting to them. I won't rule out a museum for military swords, but any fully polished nihonto masterpiece is off to a Japanese museum or appreciative collector.

 

Anyway, that is my opinion. I would like to see collections maintained and built upon, not divided up.

[David Flynn]

When you're dead, you wont care.

 

[Shamsy]

True enough there will be little I can do!

[IJASWORDS]

Hi Steve, thought about the museum offer, but I know of bad experiences. If a sword is "on loan from Steve" it is cataloged and remains your property, and can not be disposed of. If a sword is "donated by Steve" it becomes the museums property. I have heard of swords put in crates, and left to rust away, as there is no one to maintain them, also heard of museums selling them off. Also heard of swords just being taken by staff. Bet you have all heard the horror stories first hand. I know of a collector of militaria that donated his collection (including a couple of swords) to a veterans club, and after renovations, all the best pieces went missing. So be careful here, with the donation idea.

I some how like the idea of a family member or sword "buddy" being charged with the task of understanding what you have, and maximising its value for the family or contacting sword friends who can recommend how to keep the collection together. I am sure some NMB stalwarts could be trusted to do this. Imagine a collection of all the NCO variants, WITH all the arsenal marks..... what a crime if this was broken up or lost!

I guess there are some people who treat this subject with levity, but I am as serious with my collection as I am with the deeds to the house! Both are valuable.

True, when you are gone you are gone. But that doesn't mean your swords disappear. I want them preserved for as long as possible.....Neil.     

[David Flynn]

Neil, I'm sure that the people who will buy our swords when we're gone will look after them with due diligence.  A collection is just that, a collection.  Putting a collection together, is part of joy of collecting.  Selling a collection, as a collection, does not bring about the same joy as the collector. Most dealers, will split a collection when bought and then sell the pieces individualy. That's life.  As I said before, wanting to keep a collection together, is just the minds fancy.  Reality doesn't go that way.  A perfect example would be, the Caldwell Collection.  The only thing remaining to show this was a collection are the Catalogues, which people usually use as reference material.

[Bruce Pennington]

Well, gentlemen, this discussion, like all collecting "preferences" are just that - personal preferences. We are individuals with differing likes and philosophies. While David's points are perfectly true, there is more to it for some of us (like the difference on nihonto lovers vs gunto lovers; between never clean or restore vs restore to original condition). It all depends upon one's heart and reason for collecting.

 

I will probably do what Neil proposes. If my daughter isn't interested (or her husband) I will find someone who will honor what my collection represents and pass it over.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Even Compton's collection passed under the hammer. We hope to leave something after our passage, but reality is tha life ain't fair and few if any of our collections will survive us. Maybe our sons save the one swords they love the most, but little more, I fear....

[Ray Singer]

There is a museum I know of that received the donation of a healthy, Juyo-quality 76cm tachi with a Hon'ami kinzoganmei to Sa Hiroyuki. A beautiful sword with 8mm kasane. Sadly the blade has been allowed to rust over the past few years years. The museum does not have the budget for restoration and no longer allows individuals from outside their staff to assist with care and maintenance of the permanent collection.

 

 

Hi Steve, thought about the museum offer, but I know of bad experiences. If a sword is "on loan from Steve" it is cataloged and remains your property, and can not be disposed of. If a sword is "donated by Steve" it becomes the museums property. I have heard of swords put in crates, and left to rust away, as there is no one to maintain them, also heard of museums selling them off. Also heard of swords just being taken by staff. Bet you have all heard the horror stories first hand. I know of a collector of militaria that donated his collection (including a couple of swords) to a veterans club, and after renovations, all the best pieces went missing. So be careful here, with the donation idea.

 

[Reddawn27]

This was the most depressing thing I've read in along time!!! I was thinking of leaving my stuff to a museum but now I'm unsure . Damn I'm super bummed out. But as Charle1 said I'm only 28 but the high cost of some blades really hurt new collectors. But we're trying! Also would a Japanese museum take better care of the older non-Gunto swords better than the US museums since there's more of a historical connection ?

[David Flynn]

Again, leaving to a Museum, probably means the swords will be locked away, never again to see the light of day.   I personally feel that, the best way to preserve swords is to sell them.  My reasoning is, if someone i prepared to spend the money to buy, then it will probably be well looked after and cherished.  I doubt that anyone buying a sword (not counting Martial Artists) would have any other motive than appreciation.  Of course there are people who are purely mercenary and only out to make money, however, this/these swords again  will more likely end up in the hands of collectors and so the circle continues.

[reeder]

I'm pretty sure one of the local "museums" is just a guy and his collection running it through a non-profit organization. That and he convinces people to give him money, swords, guns, etc related to the pacific to "keep it going" and for display. I've tried to set up an appointment to check it all out as they have some neat stuff, but they never respond.

[Bazza]

Brandon,

 

> I'm pretty sure one of the local "museums" is just a guy and his collection

 

Keep an eye on it as it is an Estate in Waiting...

 

BaZZa.

[Brian]

How about I register the NMB as a museum, and you send them to me? I'll post regular pics, and make them available for viewing to anyone in the area. Further donations to the museum are welcome.
Hmm.....maybe I'm onto something here....lol.

[IJASWORDS]

I think David makes a lot of sense, and will ensure that the life cycle of sword collecting/appreciation will continue to future generations. Just need to ensure that there is some one charged with the responsibility to not only dispose of them sensibly, maintain them correctly in the interim, and very importantly understand what they have in their possession. To ensure this, I am preparing a spread sheet cataloging each sword with its relevant information and its purchase price/value as a guide.

I know that when we depart this earth, we will probably not care about our collection, but I think we owe future generations the pleasure we have had, and we owe our swords the respect they deserve. Neil.