Asano Kanesane

[BIG]

Essay about this swordsmith...

 

http://historicalarmsandarmor.com/japanese_0005.html

 

Best Regards

[Rich S]

I don't see a date on the page, but most of the text and pic of the swordsmiths looks like it was taken directly off my website:

 

http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/kanezane.htm

 

Rich S

[Stephen]

What i was thinking Rich. 

Ive yet to seen a fantastic Kanezane, popularity bound with Fuller and Gregory's first book with  a spread on him. Course lots of his blades were student forged and signed.

[Rich S]

Stephen -

 

Agreed, haven't seen a true gendaito by him. I have one mentioned in Fuller and Gregory. I acquired it from the estate of my good friend and teacher, the late George Moody. I've kept it mainly for sentimental reasons. Contrary to the statement in F&G that it is a gendaito, it does have a very, very faint Showa stamp high under the habaki. It is mounted in WW II era civilian koshirae.

 

 

Rich

[george trotter]

Ah...Kanezane.

I translated that letter from Kanezane to Mr Silver for Richard Fuller to publish in his 1986 book (with Mr Silver's permission of course). An interesting letter.

I have seen half a dozen Asano Kanezane swords over the decades but none were gendaito. He must have had talent to win prizes, but I am pretty sure that after 1941 he would have been too busy running his factory turning out showato for the military to make many (if any) gendaito, 

It would be interesting if a gendaito by him turned up.

Regards,

[zamzamini]

I purchased a nice nihonto at an estate sale several months ago, knowing absolutely nothing about them. It was a very hot item and that's why I decided to purchase it. To make a long story short, I embarked on trying to determine what I had and have concluded that this sword is authentic in my opinion (e.g. rust pattern, hamon, utsuri, etc.). I also tried to determine the signature (an obviously very hard task for this novice), but I had fun trying to figure it out, it was like doing a puzzle or riddle. Well, low and behold I ran across the Kanesane sword description on Japanese Sword Index site and I believe that the signature on my nihonto matches the Kansane signature in D (there is no stamps on the sword). I attached a photo of the mei. What do you think? Thanks a bunch!

 

https://www.japaneseswordindex.com/kanezane.htm

 

 

[kyushukairu]

Zamzamini (it's standard protocol to put your name as your signature), yes your sword is signed 'made by Asano Kanezane whilst living in Noshu'  (濃刕住浅野兼眞作)

[David Flynn]

Zamzamini, would you please photograph the area between the Mekugi Ana and the Hamachi,  please. This is the usual area where Stamps may be found.  Also,  some may have had the stamp removed.

[Bruce Pennington]

Stephen -

 

Agreed, haven't seen a true gendaito by him. I have one mentioned in Fuller and Gregory. I acquired it from the estate of my good friend and teacher, the late George Moody. I've kept it mainly for sentimental reasons. Contrary to the statement in F&G that it is a gendaito, it does have a very, very faint Showa stamp high under the habaki. It is mounted in WW II era civilian koshirae.

 

 

Rich

Rich, just another example of "there are exceptions to everything!". The Showa stamp is "supposed" to mean non-traditionally made. The more I study this stuff the more exceptions to the rule I see.

[Stephen]

 

Dear Bruce

 

Well not that many. How many can you bring to light?

 

 

 

Edit posted BC before coffee, clafaring can you show us which showa or seki stamp blades turned out to be Gendaito?

 

I have seen a tan stamp which was agreed to being such.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Stephen

[PNSSHOGUN]

The exceptions are absolutely, 100% in the very smallest minority. For every Seki stamped Gendaito there's probably a thousand Showato to vindicate what so many people have established in print, article and photos for decades.

 

Personally I just think talk like this gets someones hopes up their standard Showato, either made by a RJT smith or any unremarkable smith, is probably a Gendaito because they've seen a few examples on here and read our theories. I like to theorize as much as the next person but I don't like to see people led on wild goose chases either!

[Stephen]

Well said John, way too often that hope tries to float only to be sunk.

[paulb]

Many years ago I fell in love with the story of Kanezane as detailed in Fuller and Gregory's book. I was over the moon when I was able to buy an example of his work and for the next however many years tried to convince myself that, despite having a showa stamp, what I had was a gendaito. The shape was good and I thought it had a very tight itame hada. The reality was, t think, it was factory made.and oil quenched. I have seen other work signed in the same way all with showa stamps and all looking and feeling much the same. I don't think I have seen one of his swords without a showa stamp or that I was confident was a true gendaito. They may well exist but I haven't seen one either in hand or illustration. If they are out there they seem rarer than masamune.

[Bruce Pennington]

Stephen,

 

Talking of needing coffee - Woh, I just re-read the post and can see I totally took Rich's comment 180 out. I thought he was saying his blade WAS gendaito with Showa stamp, but he was saying that it wasn't.

 

Sorry guys!

 

On the issue of exceptions to the rule, I can only think of one off the top of my head, for now. I have a Star-stamped Rinji (type 3) that also has a Seki stamp on the nakago mune. It's a Kunitoshi, dated 1945.

[vajo]

Zamzamini that mei looks 100% in my eyes nakirishimei. Look at his genuine mei. That is totaly different from this krickel-krackel mei.

94% all of the produced swords during wartime are showa-to. Only 6% were gendaito. 

[Stephen]

Bruce i was going to ask about that a while back but forgot, would you show us that again so i dont have to search, if i remember right stamps on the nakago mune look seki but not true seki stamp, but more of a letter or number.

[zamzamini]

Hi Everyone,

 

Thank you so much for all of the replies. I have attached additional pictures. To me it appears that there is no stamp and there is no evidence of removal of a stamp. Sorry I can't figure out why these photos are being rotated 90 degrees.

 

Thanks again!

 

Ken

[Stephen]

I see a obviously removed sho stamp.

[Daniel]

Don’t want to hijack this thread but I have never ever seen a Gendaito with a Showa or a regular Seki stamp. I do believe we can quite safely assume that is because they don’t exist. However if memory serves me I think I seen a Gendaito with a combination of a star stamp and a MINIATURE Seki stamp. Again with reservations regarding my abscent memory I think I saw it on nihontocraft.com, also with an explanation regarding the miniature Seki stamp. Would be an easy Google search I guess. Nevertheless about swords with Seki or Sho stamps possibly being Gendaito. Come on, it’s really like beating a dead horse... They are not! Sorry no offense meant.

 

Kind Regards

Daniel

[nagamaki - Franco]

I see a obviously removed sho stamp.

 

 

My money is on oil quenched, too. 

 

My 2nd sword was an absolutely pristine condition Kanezane (had to owned by a desk officer). In any case, it was definitely water quenched with a nioi hamon, but also obviously not traditionally made either. It had an almost identical mei to Fuller/Gregory. Ended up selling that blade to someone who just had to have it and to fund a new purchase. Sadly, I saw the Kanezane sometime later for sale on a gun show table, all scratched up and with a badly broken tip. Difficult to understand after taking the time to show someone proper care and handling.

 

Of the ~ dozen held, yes, none were traditionally made. If memory serves, Chris Bowen sent me a picture years ago of an image that showed one or two (???) Kanezane traditionally made swords that even from the image didn't look like the typical ones we're used to seeing. As I recall Chris indicated he'd never seen a traditionally made Kanezane, but they must exist somewhere.

[Bruce Pennington]

Bruce i was going to ask about that a while back but forgot, would you show us that again so i dont have to search, if i remember right stamps on the nakago mune look seki but not true seki stamp, but more of a letter or number.

  

Don’t want to hijack this thread but I have never ever seen a Gendaito with a Showa or a regular Seki stamp. I do believe we can quite safely assume that is because they don’t exist. However if memory serves me I think I seen a Gendaito with a combination of a star stamp and a MINIATURE Seki stamp. Again with reservations regarding my abscent memory I think I saw it on nihontocraft.com, also with an explanation regarding the miniature Seki stamp. Would be an easy Google search I guess. Nevertheless about swords with Seki or Sho stamps possibly being Gendaito. Come on, it’s really like beating a dead horse... They are not! Sorry no offense meant.

Kind Regards

Daniel

Here they are Stephen.

 

Daniel, that is interesting, I'll have to try to find it, because I'm seeing other mini arsenal stamps on nakago mune as well.

[Bruce Pennington]

Daniel, I found it here: http://www.nihontocraft.com/Kanehide.html. They are speculating that the mune stamp may be from the Seki Token contractor.

 

I was wondering about the old story about the Seki stamp, how it was originally a craftsman guild stamp that was later absconded and taken over by the arsenals. This would have happened long before my 1945, or the nihontocraft's 1944 blades were made though. But I still wonder if it's not some sort of contractor's approval/inspection mark on these star-stamped blades. Arsenals tended to put their marks on the nakago itself for a non--traditional blade.

[Stephen]

really you think i can read that? lol you and your famous photos that get smaller when clicked on. dont think its a seki stamp you guys are seeing

[Bruce Pennington]

really you think i can read that? lol you and your famous photos that get smaller when clicked on. dont think its a seki stamp you guys are seeing

Stephen, I love ya man, but you GOTTA learn to use the Zoom function, dude!

 

Here, I tried enlarging:

[Stephen]

Having a laugh eh?...forget any help.

[Brian]

Bruce..seriously. That image opens up to the same size....all it did was rotate.
LARGE means an increase in size. As in 600x600 pixels or 800x800.....
22kb is not really a useful size.

[Bruce Pennington]

Having a laugh eh?...forget any help.

Stephen,

 

Sorry my friend. I’m the “pot calling the kettle black” because I have no idea about how to make my picture bigger. I’m just not tech savvy in that regard. DaveR gave me a tip once that worked, but I don’t remember what it was.

[Shamsy]

A stamp that small will be difficult to discern regardless of picture size. Even zoomed in it looks like a mess. Heaven forbid that it's not been clearly struck.

[Dave R]

Stephen,

 

Sorry my friend. I’m the “pot calling the kettle black” because I have no idea about how to make my picture bigger. I’m just not tech savvy in that regard. DaveR gave me a tip once that worked, but I don’t remember what it was.

 

 Right click the picture, open the picture in Windows "Paint", click "resize" and then put the % number in the box for how much you want to enlarge it, click "ok", and "save" .

[reeder]

On another note, the Kanehide is one of the few gendai seen in Type 3 mounts with the olive green metal scabbard.  Would love that blade in my collection!