Help With A Katana, Please.

[custodian]

Not only am I new to NMB, I’m new to Nihonto.  The third strike against me is memory (and age)  - bad (and old).  However, I have always loved the edged weapon and the katana, in particular.  I finally picked one up and would like to find out what I can about it.  I’ve been reading up, but it only does so much good (post stroke and memory retention is poor).  (The sword is not for sale.)

Any help on the this blade – condition, age (I’ve been told what the mei says, but could the blade be), whatever else you folks might be willing to share would be great.

Length 69.8cm    Sori 1.1cm     Machi 3cm     Yokote 2cm     Nakago 18cm     2 Mekugi-ana

 

[custodian]

Other photos that may or may not help.  I don't seem to have a handle of getting reasonable photos of the blade - very sorry about that.

 

Oh, and a couple of photos of the tsuba are posted over in the 'Tosogu' area.

 

 

[ggil]

Looks koto, where in time does the mei place it, or were there many smiths singing thusly? I see plenty of nei near kissaki but can't see if it persists or is here and there. Looks like pretty good shape as I don't see any big flaws. It would be good to know how thick it is to help educate my guess maybe. Hopefully it isn't too tired. The skin looks good though. Looks like an nice blade that may warrant a polish. I've read that the best blades are nioi and not nie based. Anyone heard something like this? Probably just a generalization. Good luck learning more about it! People here have the knowledge and the books on hand to look up the maker/school, and these folks are very helpful. Some smiths are more obscure though.

 

AOI has a 3rd gen kanewaka up right now for sale, w TH kantesho. Check it out!

[custodian]

The mei has been translated to be Gashu ju Kanewaka (3rd generation) - 1673-1681

 

From what I've read, the Maeda clan became active near the end of the 1500s.  Perhaps of the third generation may have like the style or some such?

 

The thickness is 7.05mm near the nagako - about 3 inches out, and 6.10mm about 4 inches up from the kissaki.

[Gunome]

Hello,

 

I would go on shinto on this one, not on koto.

Regarding the mei, I don't know enought this school to confirm or not if it could be genuine.

[custodian]

Hello,

 

I would go on shinto on this one, not on koto.

Regarding the mei, I don't know enought this school to confirm or not if it could be genuine.

Thank you for weighing in.  I can understand how 'knowing' a school could verify the identity of a sword, as well as giving it a time frame.  I suppose I've never learned to 'see' things in the ways needed to do that with the blade.  Learning Chinese monochrome porcelains and the Japanese chawan, for example, one does a great deal of 'seeing' with their hands.   I'm glad to have gotten through those a lot earlier in my life.  

[SteveM]

There is an authenticated, 3rd generation Kanewaka on Aoi's website. I attach a link here for your reference. 

http://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-gashu-ju-kanewaka-3rd-generation

 

I do not know enough to tell you if the signatures are an exact match. They look close enough to me, but... You would need to send this to shinsa for an authoritative opinion. 

[custodian]

There is an authenticated, 3rd generation Kanewaka on Aoi's website. I attach a link here for your reference. 

http://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-gashu-ju-kanewaka-3rd-generation

 

I do not know enough to tell you if the signatures are an exact match. They look close enough to me, but... You would need to send this to shinsa for an authoritative opinion. 

Hello Steve,

 

Thank you for the link.  Yes, I've seen the wakizashi and I just wish my vision was good enough to compare well enough to make a decision.  However, I do have an appointment with shinsa in August in San Francisco.  Thank you, once again.

[Jim P]

Hi Chris, IMHO, This blade is worth a shot at Shinsa the mei looks close have a look at the 2  blades next to it they both have NBTHK papers to Kanewaka 3rd gen

[custodian]

Hi Chris, IMHO, This blade is worth a shot at Shinsa the mei looks close have a look at the 2  blades next to it they both have NBTHK papers to Kanewaka 3rd gen

 

 

Hello Jim,

 

Thank you, many times over.  Even I can make out the similarities - down to the 'texturing' in the lines of the second character.  Even the mekugi-ana positioning looks the same.

 

Yes, it will go to shinsa.  Thank you, again.

[Jim P]

Hi Chris, I think it would look great in a new polish let us know how things go   

[custodian]

Hi Chris, I think it would look great in a new polish let us know how things go 

 

Ah ha, reading my mind, huh?

 

I've been thinking about looking into a polish for it.  However, I would really like for it to have an 'in hand' evaluation or two, first.  Having learned a long time ago that a picture may be worth a 1000 words, but judging in person can sum it up to one word - 'yes' or 'no'.

 

I will definitely show it off as time go on.  I can enjoy bragging, too! 

 

(Of course, I'll have to learn how to take decent pictures of it, first.) 

[Jim P]

Hi Chris, If you decide to do it, just make sure the he is a Japanese trained polisher and remember they have long waiting lists and 1 or 2 years or more is common. There is a list under Restoration in the links page

[custodian]

Hi Chris, If you decide to do it, just make sure the he is a Japanese trained polisher and remember they have long waiting lists and 1 or 2 years or more is common. There is a list under Restoration in the links page

 

Ah, yes.  It will come down to the question of 'who'.  Yes, Japanese trained will be a pre-requisite.  Even I can use a grinder and that isn't saying anything good - at all!

 

Reading/listening to what one says about oneself goes only so far.  Listening to others speak of someone, and acting on that information is sometimes hard to swallow, as well.  I seem to always hear a dim echoing in the back of my mind of Mark Twain saying something like "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated".

 

Being new to the 'topic', with no experience in this area, is going to make choosing the right person a study in itself.

 

Perhaps it will be easier that I think it may be - perhaps not.  Nonetheless, it isn't something I will rush into.

 

Thank you for the nudge to the links page.  One must start somewhere.

[Kronos]

Bob Benson is located in Hawaii and was fully trained in Japan (I've used him and he's very good and well priced), there's another 2 fully trained Togishi in the US, Moses Becerra and the other escapes me. There's also several people who offer restoration services in Japan who liaise directly with the craftsmen, I would recommend Paul Martin who offers an excellent service.

 

In terms of this Katana from what can be seen it looks very good and close to what you might expect from kanewaka, I'm not sure about the signature but it's certainly close. Either way it would look very good in polish imho.

[custodian]

Hello James,

 

I sincerely appreciate the input and the time you've taken.  It is always easier to start with a list of those with whom folks have had positive experiences. 

 

Mr. Benson and Mr. Becerra are two names that I've come across and are on a list that I've started, along with Mr. Martin - with whom I've had a very brief, but positive contact.

 

Thank you, once again, for taking the time to share.

[SAS]

Bob Benson and Woody have my vote as well; I have seen them at work in person, and both have won awards in Japan.

[Stephen]

CHRIS

 

Welcome to the world of Nihonto, being your self confessed new id request you to take a step back and ask your self do i really want to spend money for polish on my first sword. More than a few of us only get one two three max in our lifetime polished, Does this sword really warrant a polish? IMHO id spend money on making shows, seeing swords in hand and what they look like in polish. I do believe you have a keeper, not as sure you cant just enjoy it as is. 

[SAS]

Swords do have a limited number of polishes before they get "tired"; as Stephen notes, swords can be enjoyed without being in pristine polish. It looks like the last polish was done in a rather coarse manner, and more steel would need to be removed to take out the scratches. Near the hamachi, this would result in more kizu showing. No need to rush into anything; keep it oiled and take it to shinsa....just my opinion (but you do have my recommendation if you do get it polished.....good polishers will take condition into account.)

[drbvac]

I would let whomever you decide to do the polish advise as to the outcome as I am sure they would not put their best effort into any blade if they thought it would bring out faults and magnify them rather than improve it a great deal.

 

Shinsa will settle the maker = the togishi will decide the outcome of the polish

 

Great blade - congrats

[custodian]

CHRIS

 

Welcome to the world of Nihonto, being your self confessed new id request you to take a step back and ask your self do i really want to spend money for polish on my first sword. More than a few of us only get one two three max in our lifetime polished, Does this sword really warrant a polish? IMHO id spend money on making shows, seeing swords in hand and what they look like in polish. I do believe you have a keeper, not as sure you cant just enjoy it as is. 

 

Hello Stephen and SAS,

 

Thank you for the input, as well as the words of wisdom.  My time frame for the blade is to find out from those with much more experience at 'seeing' a blade their opinion, in hand, before a final decision, whether yea or nay, on a polish.  I have no experience and I do not wish to cause harm to the blade.  Sooooo, it may be a while before I can make a rational decision on it, and then whether a togishi sees benefit to the blade of a polish. 

 

What I have deduced from the little history I been able to garner of this blade leads me to believe that it was well respected while in the hands of the former owner.  Upon his passing, it suffered from lack of attention.  If possible, without harm to the blade, I would like to help it back to a reasonable semblance of what it was.  If that is not a likelihood, then at least, maintain it in good condition.  Whatever the final decision, I will enjoy having the blade.

 

Once again, thank you.

[custodian]

Swords do have a limited number of polishes before they get "tired"; as Stephen notes, swords can be enjoyed without being in pristine polish. It looks like the last polish was done in a rather coarse manner, and more steel would need to be removed to take out the scratches. Near the hamachi, this would result in more kizu showing. No need to rush into anything; keep it oiled and take it to shinsa....just my opinion (but you do have my recommendation if you do get it polished.....good polishers will take condition into account.)

 

Hello Steve,

 

I'm not familiar with 'Woody', yet.  Who might he be?

 

Yes, shinsa is already planned and arranged - Aug. in San Francisco.   I appreciate the possible problems you pointed to.

 

Thank you.

[custodian]

I would let whomever you decide to do the polish advise as to the outcome as I am sure they would not put their best effort into any blade if they thought it would bring out faults and magnify them rather than improve it a great deal.

 

Shinsa will settle the maker = the togishi will decide the outcome of the polish

 

Great blade - congrats

 

Hello Brian,

 

Love that signature line - how well some of us can identify!

 

"Shinsa will settle the maker = the togishi will decide the outcome of the polish" - wise words, indeed.  And, I hope, if the time comes, that I find the right togishi.

 

Thank you.

[Stephen]

Chris yes Shinsa will tell, and great fun Bob Benson will be there at the Aug show along with Jimmy H. they well let you know whats best for you.

Woody is B Bensons trained togi, my go to guy as well. 

[custodian]

Stephen,

 

Thank you for that bit of news.  All the more reason to anticipate August.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Chris, taking a jaundiced look at that blade, I think it saw one too many trips through a grinder to be a reasonable candidate for polishing. Study the heck out of it, but some books & study hard, & your next purchase will most likely be worth polishing. Woody has polished my last two blades, & I heartily agree that he would be the right togishi to do your work...just not this blade. You can send him a couple of the photos that you've posted here, & ask his opinion, as he will freely offer that information. I've PM'd you with his direct e-mail address.

 

Ken

 

[custodian]

Chris, taking a jaundiced look at that blade, I think it saw one too many trips through a grinder to be a reasonable candidate for polishing. Study the heck out of it, but some books & study hard, & your next purchase will most likely be worth polishing. Woody has polished my last two blades, & I heartily agree that he would be the right togishi to do your work...just not this blade. You can send him a couple of the photos that you've posted here, & ask his opinion, as he will freely offer that information. I've PM'd you with his direct e-mail address.

 

Ken

 

Hello Ken,

 

Thank you for your opinion.  It will be taken under serious consideration.

 

Yes, the books and study are necessities very near the top of the priority list.  Getting to the study part is sometimes the hard part - I seem to get caught up reading the posts here and get absorbed in the topics, as there is a lot to learn just on the board.

 

I appreciate the information about Woody and will consider getting some photos to him.  However, I'm not sure that I'm quite ready to tackle the polishing aspect, as yet.  I'm still trying to get a grasp on the basics and trying to learn to 'see' the blade.  I knew I didn't know anything about Nihonto, but I didn't know just how little I didn't know - if that makes sense.

 

Thank you for you input and taking the time to offer your considered opinion.

[SAS]

http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/about-us.html

Info on Bob Benson and Woody Hall here.

[custodian]

Thank you, Steve.

 

Oh, no!  My bookmark list just hit the floor! 

[custodian]

CHRIS

 

Welcome to the world of Nihonto, being your self confessed new id request you to take a step back and ask your self do i really want to spend money for polish on my first sword. More than a few of us only get one two three max in our lifetime polished, Does this sword really warrant a polish? IMHO id spend money on making shows, seeing swords in hand and what they look like in polish. I do believe you have a keeper, not as sure you cant just enjoy it as is. 

 

Hello Stephen,

 

Thank you for the welcome to the world of Nihonto.  Yes, it is an unknown world to me, unlike anything that applies to edged pieces I already have, like a Revolutionary War hanger, Black Sea Yataghan, an Africian throwing sword, and such.

 

Whether this blade is worth a polish, well, that is what I am trying to learn and one of the reasons why I'm here - this board, with its wealth of information and wisdom, is part of my learning process.  Should the blade be worth it, it will get one.

 

I'm afraid I don't necessarily agree that spending the time on just shows and going around seeing what other blades look like in polish, alone, is good reason or way to decide whether this blade would look good in a polish and, around here, would be lacking any useful information in trying to understand and learn about the blade(s). Seeing other blades, though, is always interesting, at least.  Unfortunately, I know most of the dealers and participants of the arms shows around here and have little trust in any of them.  I think I will seek more reputible avenues of research.

 

Frankly, this may well be the only Nihonto I ever will own.  I will enjoy it, as is or polished, however, in my opinion, having possession of it bestows upon me the obligation of being a responsible conservator.  Ergo, I try to learn.

 

Thank you, again, for your welcome.