mywifesgunakillme Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 I'm new to this forum, and I have never collected swords of any type. I usually collection antique firearms, but came across this sword a couple of weekends ago. I thought it was a reproduction at first based on the neat cuts on the ...what I now know is called the "TSUBA". I just assumed it ha to have been machine made. When I got it home, I was amazed at just how sharp the blade was. It shows light pitting but the blade was razor sharp! Sliced right through paper with ease. I started thinking there is no way a reproduction sword would have that kind of an edge. I posted photos on another forum that I frequent. They have determined base on the markings on the tang that it is Koto period and made in Nakatsu. The TSUBA is also marked, but it is very difficult to get pictures of the markings. I have posted pictures for your review and input. The left side of the blade has the most patina and rust. I believe it is light enough that it could possibly be polished out by a professional. The right side is in a bit better condition. I'm asking for any additional information that the experts here on this site can offer. Thank you in advance, and I look forward to the discussion. 1
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Posted October 25, 2016 Second set of pictures. 1
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Posted October 25, 2016 third set of pictures. 1
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Posted October 25, 2016 The little wooden peg is a temporary solution. The one originally holding the handle on was not salvageable. 1
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Posted October 25, 2016 Ok, these are the last pics I have. If other pictures are need, please ask and I'll do my best. Thank you 1
Mortis Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 Out of the woodwork, man, so cool! Exciting. Congratulations on finding that. Looks pretty well conserved, all things considering. I like the menuki. Hawk feathers?
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Posted October 25, 2016 Right out of the woodwork is right. It's exciting to find out just how old this sword could potentially be. I had absolutely no idea when I bought it, and it's quite something to hold a sword like this. I watched a couple of youtube videos showing how master sword smiths make these things and it's quite impressive. A whole lot of time and effort goes into these swords. No wonder why they command so much money.
Gordon Sanders Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 Nice find. Be sure to sign your posts. or add it into your profile signature. Looking forward to seeing the comments from the smart people in the room!! And be sure and post measurements. Length of the cutting edge, length of the nakago (tang) and amount of curve in the blade
Kronos Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 The mei says: “Buzen Nakatsu-jū Fuji(wara) 備前中津住藤 ( 原 ) and the only match I can find in my references is: TOMOIE (朝家), Enpō (延宝, 1673-1681), Buzen – “Buzen Nakatsu-jū Fujiwara Tomoie saku” (備前中津住藤原 朝家作). It's suriage (shortened) so the rest of the signature was cut off. 2
Brian Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 Get a lot of oil on there asap. Stabilize any active rust, and don't use anything abrasive on it. Just wipe and oil..wipe and oil. Real, although in a poor state. You need to get it to someone who knows Nihonto a bit to see what they can make out. Probably restorable in full..not economical but sometimes worthwhile just to end up with the result, and see what it is all about. 2
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Posted October 25, 2016 So far between this post and one other, I am confident that the tang has been shortened and says “Buzen Nakatsu-jū Fuji". Beyond that, there is some level of discrepancy determining the period of the sword. One individual says its a Koto sword and someone here posted it could be from the late 1670's. I am trying to find some knowledgable peopl ehere in the SoCal area who could take a look at it in person. Does anyone here on this board have a sword made by TOMOIE (朝家), Enpō (延宝, 1673-1681), Buzen – “Buzen Nakatsu-jū Fujiwara Tomoie saku” (備前中津住藤原 朝家作)? I guess we could possible compare the etching on the tang to try and determine if they were engraved by the same person? I would imagine it would be much like taking a handwriting sample and comparing the two. Hope to get some more feedback. Also, why was the tang shortened? Was the sword longer when originally made and possibly shortened due to damage or something? Thank you, Jason
SAS Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 I am going to be the odd man out and call fake.
Stephen Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 My call is real, rode hard and put away wet. Togi needs in hand if you plan on polishing it. lot of uchiko-ing may bring out a hamon over time.
Mark Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 there is a club in SoCal, you should be able to find info online, or maybe someone here is a member. you can take it to a meeting and get multiple opinions
Kronos Posted October 25, 2016 Report Posted October 25, 2016 Just to clarify I'm not saying the sword is definitely from that time period, just that it has the signature that purports to be of this smith. Tomoie is a relatively obscure smith that wouldn't be an obvious target for gimei but without a valid reference it's impossible to tell. Nakatsu wasn't really a place until Nakatsu Castle was built in the early 1600's so no swordsmiths would of been living there until this time and no other known smith signed this way. Without a full length photo of the blade and nakago without any fittings its impossible to judge the age based upon shape. As others hsave said the best course of action is to find someone knowledgeable to show it in hand. 1
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Posted October 25, 2016 I'm working on finding someone in the area. I have contacted a gentlemen who belongs to a To-Ken society in Gardena CA. I appreciate all of the input. I will try and get some additonal pictures up. The cutting edge of the sword measures a little over 24 1/4" in length. I was told that the length makes it a Katana. My understanding is that if it were under 24" it would be considered a Wakizachi? Not sure if that is correct, or which is more desirable. I can say without a doubt that it is 100% not a reproduction in anyway, as I had originally thought it would be. Thanks again
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 26, 2016 Author Report Posted October 26, 2016 Another forum suggested the following; Your blade is signed "Buzen Nakatsu Ju Fuji (cut off ) perhaps it said BuzenNakatsu Ju Fujiwara Nagatoshi. This is one idea of the makers name. Does that name sound familiar with anyone?
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 26, 2016 Author Report Posted October 26, 2016 Here is a full length photo I took the other day.
Ken-Hawaii Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 Jason, you're throwing lots of things out here, but no one will be able to answer all of your questions. First, without having a full mei, no one can determine who the smith is - you can guess, but you won't know. Second, you are excited about it, but what we see is a badly-rusted/pitted typical Shinto wakizashi - if you knew how to look at the sugata (shape) you wouldn't think it was Koto. Third, many, many wakizashi were once something longer, but were shortened due to changes in Japanese laws. Fourth, like Steve, I'm not sure it's really a Japanese blade. If it makes you feel better, the tsuba does look real, as best I can tell from out-of-focus shots. Ken
Gordon Sanders Posted October 26, 2016 Report Posted October 26, 2016 Here is a full length photo I took the other day. hi Jason, Please post without the Habaki, and the FULL length of the blade. You might need to stand on a chair to get high enough depending on your camera
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Posted October 28, 2016 I took some more photos. I could not get the Habaki off. It goes as far back as pictured, then it gets real tight. I don't want to force it off. I think you should be able to get a picture of what the shape of the tang is. 1
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Posted October 28, 2016 A few additional pictures including updated pics of the Tsuba. I looked over the blade with a 10X loop and could not see any cracks. I did find two tiny nicks in the blade as seen in the one picture. Everything else looks good.
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Posted October 28, 2016 I was finally able to get a few full length pictures with the tape measure in the background for reference. Total length including the tang is a little under 30". Cutting edge is a little more than 24". I hope these pictures help those who say they might be better able to determine the age of the blade by looking at the tang more closely. 1
Greg F Posted October 28, 2016 Report Posted October 28, 2016 Hi Jason pics of the full naked blade may help. Edit: pic came up while i was writing. cheers Greg
Ken-Hawaii Posted October 28, 2016 Report Posted October 28, 2016 Okay, you have an o-suriage katana, just from your measurements & photos, Jason, & more sori than I thought. Blades more than 2 shaku (about 24") are defined as katana, & we know the nakago on yours is cut down, right through the mei. If you want to get the habaki off, you can put a piece of soft wood (pine) between it & your hammer, & just gradually tap it off, going from side to side. The "nicks" on the blade are what we call nail-biters, & can easily be removed if/when the blade is polished. As far as doing anything else, I would suggest using uchiko on the blade until you can see what's under the rust. Ken
SteveM Posted October 28, 2016 Report Posted October 28, 2016 Slight correction: Buzen Nakatsu-jū Fuji(wara) 豊前中津住藤 ( 原 )
SAS Posted October 28, 2016 Report Posted October 28, 2016 There is something about the patina on the blade and nakago that bothers me, as well as the level of attention to detail on the habaki. The yokote is also an issue for me. Seems like a lot of sori as well. I am open to being wrong. The patina on the fuchi and kashira (my wife reminded me of the term after my short term memory loss manifested, she is awesome!) was what started my questioning.
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Posted October 28, 2016 Is there anything about the Katana that doesn't bother you?
Ken-Hawaii Posted October 28, 2016 Report Posted October 28, 2016 No, Jason, not much. But if you are looking for a pat on the back for buying a blade that is, at best, second-rate (& probably third-), you're on the wrong forum. Next time you're in the market, I suggest asking questions before you spend your $$. Ken
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Posted October 28, 2016 Ken, I can appreciate some of the input that you and a couple of others have provided. It's the "SAS" idiot who seems to have about as much knowledge as I did a week ago making comments without providing any substance to back them up. The quick "I'll be the odd guy out and call fake" and "I don't like this, that and the other" without saying what it is that he doesn't like so there can be a dialog is why he brings no added value to the forum. I came to this forum on a recommendation, just trying to find out what type of sword it is, the age of the sword and if at all possible identify the maker. I've received some good information thus far. Some, not so useful.
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