Offered This

[goose710]

gentlemen

I've been offered this tanto but don't know the value to make an offer

so-shu-ju-nin-Hiromasa

also an imperial crescent saber . will have pics soon

As the person offering the tanto is my Iai-do sensei, I don't wish to offend him with a stupidly low  offer , I'd like to be in a comfortable range

any idea's?

Thanks in advance

and if this is beyond my ability to buy price wize it may be available to one of you.

Charles Grusovnik

[goose710]

Gentlemen

a few of the saber pictures

Charles Grusovnik

 

 

Here are a few of the saber pics

 

[John A Stuart]

You would have to determine the generation of Hiromasa, and the rarity of the smith's work given condition. John

[nagamaki - Franco]

Tortoise shell handle, very nice. 

[ggil]

In army sabers, the tortoise shell handle is generals grade. This one is also probably a high ranking official's sword as well. The work on the handle looks very nice, and the tassel and knot is a really nice plus. A ROUGH guess based on the great condition of the military blade, coupled with my general complete lack of knowledge: $750 on the low end. It could be worth more, but not a great deal less I would ASSUME.

[Stephen]

JMHO

 

It should be up to the sensei, dont know why he should ask you for a offer. MPO would be 500, that said it may offend, sorry cant be more help Chuck.

[Bugyotsuji]

Does he know you well? Does he know you are poor(rich)? Why is he offering this to mainly you? Why does the paper show two smiths' names?

[goose710]

Gentlemen

I've been his student for 2.5 yrs.  I've bought three modern swords (not cheapies +1k ) , one I use as Iai-to , through

the school. I'm not rich or poor , just ignorant when it comes to the values on (old ones) swords .

I buy by "eye" what I like, and usually with a price, from a board member or AOI Art Sword.

He's offering to me  I think because Shihan knows I collect and so few people, do in our circle.

As to the paper,  he's said that " according to Jap source  2nd Hiromasa signed  with  "nin"  I can't read it.

I don't believe he's very knowledgeable in this .

He's selling for a family friend. He's also said I can show the pics to people who may be interested.

He is only acting as a go between  in this , and believe he has no interest in it other that that.

So, $1000.00 on saber , and    $750.00 on tanto  (so as not to offend).

Charles Grusovnik

PS- I won't tell you his name but you would probably know his father (a swordsman)

[ggil]

Stephen said $500 on the sabre, which seems fair enough. The tanto is too far above my pay grade to guess.

 

Looks like black shoe polish on the nakago. One way to make it look older or hide active rust- just an observation. Maybe some research is in order to try and verify the mei? Valuation of old blades is an art form which requires years of learning. Maybe a member will come along who has collected/researched this school/smith and can elaborate on the value.

[John A Stuart]

Piers, That origami has, I believe, besides the swordsmith name, also the mei on the kogatana. John

[Stephen]

Grant good eye on the black you can see where it was brushed on, wonder if it would come off.

Charles i think your arrived prices are very fair.

[lonely panet]

is actually a scarce turtle shell grip handed Court sword, this  version features  the chrysanthemum on the guard. so is a uncommon version among the courtsword family.

[Bugyotsuji]

Hiromasa and Hirotsugu? I have just bought a Hirotsugu tanto.

 

Gotta start somewhere, I guess, but it's like trying to set up a goalpost in a giant whirlpool.

 

Perhaps it is a secret test of your character...? How far do you trust your instinct regarding this blade, even if it has a decent Mei cut into the Nakago? The paperwork is simply a random notation of the Mei, with no suggestion as to the blade's validity. So-Shu Ju nin Hiromasa 相州住人廣正　written down the middle.

 

Down the left in smalller characters it says Raku-Yo Ju Fujiwara Hirotsugu 洛陽住藤原廣次

 

I would like to trust it and make a decent offer, but I would ask for a little help from your teacher first. "Come on, meet me half-way here. I do like the blade, and I do have some cash, but I am grasping in the dark." You can search for prices of Hiromasa Tanto offered by swordshops on the web. Perhaps your teacher has also done this already? I am guessing they will be around 500,000 JPY, though, but I could be way off the mark. (?)

 

Do you have any better shots of the blade?

[Brian]

$750 is not a lot for a tanto, with reasonable tsuba, also a kozuka and kogatana. Even if it was mumei, it isn't a crazy price. I would be inclined to grab it. You would get your money back and maybe a bit more on eBay. Don't know 'nuffink' on the court sword

[goose710]

Gentlemen

 

Sensei has transferred me to the owner of the items ,

my offer has been tentatively accepted.

 

Thank you guys for the information and support

 

Charles L. Grusovnik

 

[Shugyosha]

Hi Charles,

 

You had a win with the Hiromasa tanto. Here's one by one of the later generations of smiths:

 

http://www.aoijapan.com/tanto-soshu-ju-hiromasa

[Greg F]

Hello Charles congrats on your new blades. Are you planning on having the Hiromasa polished? If so I hope we get to see the after pics. All the best.

 

Greg

[goose710]

Hi Charles,

 

You had a win with the Hiromasa tanto. Here's one by one of the later generations of smiths:

 

http://www.aoijapan.com/tanto-soshu-ju-hiromasa

I couldn't believe  mine (which I don't have in hand yet) could be like this one.  we'll see after I get it and see what's what

if only  

Charles G

[goose710]

Hello Charles congrats on your new blades. Are you planning on having the Hiromasa polished? If so I hope we get to see the after pics. All the best.

 

Greg

Greg

That thought has crossed my mind, have to get it into my hot little hands to  see how it is .

Charles G.

[Darcy]

Yeah... I am late to this but I am really headsmacking. $750 even for a late generation Soshu tanto with koshirae? Please. You can send your kid out to make this amount cutting lawns. Put him to work. Daddy needs a new tanto. Deal with the mei later. Well, now is later. So, deal with it. But yeah those are completely attractive prices for speculative items. 

[goose710]

Gentlemen

Have received the two items and will take some pictures of the mei and blade, then  if it's found to be

real Hiromasa, I think may require a polish and shinsa . My real concern is looks like the tip has been messed with!

will take close-ups and then ask advice from the kind and knowledgeable members as to the next step.

Charles l. grusovnik

[goose710]

Gentlemen

I'm assuming the mei is gimmei , but can anything be seen

in my poor pictures as to the real maker or age?

I'm on a polishers list , and not a Hiramasa  is no bother to me 

just want to save a piece of history, good/bad no biggie.

It's more like I'm curious as to what lies beneath!!

 

To educate me can I see a genuine mei vs my mei and subtleties of the difference ,

not arguing it's no false, just like to see differences.

 

Your time and efforts are well appreciated by me.

 

 

 

Charles L. Grusovnik

[SwordGuyJoe]

Maybe just the pics, but the hamon looks to run off the sword nearing the tip and if it doesn't it comes dangerously close. I'd pass on this one.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Maybe just the pics, but the hamon looks to run off the sword nearing the tip

 

... and seems neither hamachi nor munemachi left....

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

honest togishi should tell you if the blade deserve (and can suffer) a polish, but I guess your polisher hasn't handled the blade yet. To me, seems a bit "tired".

 

 

I'm on a polishers list

[ggil]

Those pictures don't say too much. Especially about the hamon running off - no way to tell yeah or nay from those. I'd be shocked if there is no munemachi, that would be odd indeed. Thickness/motogasane and variance from motogasane to nakago kasane? I think I see both ha and mune machi there (munemachi is quite small though). Agreed that the polisher should know better. Who you commissioning polish from?

The mei looks to be standing quite proudly on such a old and maybe tired blade (maybe later addition???).

 

Best of luck to you,

[goose710]

Gentlemen

Your views mirror mine , the hamon looks very close to running off the tip, but then in different light

I "think" I see it . one side is better than the other.

I will leave it to the polisher to judge what can be done for it.  The very point don't look right either

I hate to say it but looks like some-one  dressed  it. maybe a broken tip or deep rust.

Thank you fellows for your time,  it will be my project to

do for this blade the justice it deserves,  I realize no grand prize here but would like to see it in better condition

Charles L. Grusovnik

[goose710]

Gentlemen

Tanto sent out this AM to polisher .

Lets hope he can turn a sows ear into a silk purse (or at least denim!)

Charles L. Grusovnik

[ggil]

OK please let us know what happens.  It would be nice to see what is under the scuffing.  I hope it turns out to have a boshi and not a cut-down blade.  A lot of work to go into outfitting a blade without a boshi.  The tanto shape overall seems attractive to me, so if cut down done by an experienced hand.  Darcy's gut wouldn't hold him back, so good chance you are going to be happy about the tanto.  I just noticed the habaki is 2 piece silver covered and has some artistic texture worked into it.

[goose710]

Grant

I'm hoping polisher can find and bring out a hamon, correct  the tip (seems messed with) and make it easier on the eyes!

I hate to see blades in this condition. They deserve better.

Thanks and will post as soon as i know , what is what!

Charles L.