Modern/fake Or Late Daisho On Fleabay

[lonely panet]

ok, iv never really like these over the top style tsuba,

 

but its killing me to know if they are modern or very late edo??

 

what do you guys think???

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-OF-ANTIQUE-Japanese-GILT-DRAGON-DECORATED-IRON-TSUBAS-SIGNED/331989660624?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39241%26meid%3De160415f9b6b4f50bfcb261bd6152b26%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D331990634934

 

my apologies to anyone whos secret auction I have spoiled

\

[Greg F]

Look real to me (i think), otherwise they are the best fake Tsuba ive seen. Cheers.

 

Greg

[ggil]

Dear Hamfish, I share your mixed feelings on these many late (so called) edo shakudo tsuba. These seem like well kept ones. I bet the shakudo is almost only a surface treatment. The nanako is nice. I'd assume there are many other exact copies. Other than that: REAL. Not my "cup o tea". Probably only 100 years old or so, maybe more recent. I think some real edo mino work is similar, and maybe these would even qualify as such, but don't like them. In my opinion, same with the many ones with treasure ships, flower sales baskets, animals/insects, flowers, etc: rather cheap mino copies; or late to post edo mass produced tourist stuff, but on the better side of the spectrum. MY GUESS ONLY Of course.

[SwordGuyJoe]

They're real

 

Edit: This is why no one should ever listen to me about tsuba. The right people gave their answers. I'll go back to sleep now.

[Ford Hallam]

The mei is a very half hearted attempt at a Goto Mitsu ? and were probably added by someone with a sense of humour :-p

 

The workmanship is as rough as an old goats knee.

 

Looking more closely I would guess these are very recent cast copies of mediocre (I'm being kind) late Edo tat. Probably not even shakudo.

 

Edit to change my opinion from 'I would guess' to  'I'm pretty confidant these are modern, (very recent) cast copies.'

[Kevin Adams]

The photos of the edge by themselves make a convincing case for the set being cast.

[Curran]

Hmm.

Until I looked at the edges [per Kevin's comment], I would have thought real tsuba but late Edo rough work with very dubious signatures.

 

Now I don't know.

<-> Borderline between lower grade gimei late Edo work and better than average modern.

[nagamaki - Franco]

The wave work alone should leave you running for the eyedrops    Contrast is an amazing thing, take a few minutes looking at some excellent pieces found online even if the subject matter is somewhat different, then flip back. Ouch!

[Curran]

Yes, the wave forms are crude, but I would have chalked this up to late Edo Mito shiremono.

Lot of that late Edo tourist grade stuff is rough.

 

Kevin and Ford's comments made me reconsider. I had missed the appearance of seams along the edge.

[Shugyosha]

Look real to me (i think), otherwise they are the best fake Tsuba ive seen. Cheers.

 

Greg

 

They had me too. 

[Jean]

Ford,

 

I love when you are kind ROFLMAO!!!

[Ford Hallam]

Jean, you know me, I'm like the Mother Theresa of the Tosogu world.

 

But on  a serious note, if I am correct, and I'm pretty sure I am, then this is the third modern fake of this 'cleverness' I've seen in the past 12 months. It was only a matter of time before modern jewellery casting processes ( high definition vacuum casting) were used to copy genuine old pieces.

 

I'm off to the USA tomorrow morning early but when I get back in a few weeks I'll try and put together a primer to help spotting this new generation of fakes.

[Jean]

Thanks Ford

[lonely panet]

thanks all,

 

it was a fun trip, but im glad I can feel assured that they my feelings were correct about the dodgy nature of these tsuba

[nagamaki - Franco]

 this is the third modern fake of this 'cleverness' I've seen in the past 12 months. It was only a matter of time before modern jewellery casting processes ( high definition vacuum casting) were used to copy genuine old pieces.

 

 

Am almost certain of seeing a modern reproduction, opinion of course, just in the last 48 hours. It was a F/K set that seemed to be drawing a good deal of attention on auction which is what caught my eye to begin with. Keep your guard up.

[johnnyi]

This thread was worth it for "rougher than an old goat's knee"

[Ford Hallam]

Johnny

 

...for your edification and your delight

 

and while I'm feeling mellow, now that my bags are packed and all of my usual concerns must be shelved while I'm off in 'the colonies' for a couple of weeks teaching as of tomorrow, i want to say how much I actually appreciate and enjoy our community.

 

Don't worry, on my return (26th October) normal service will resume

[Greg F]

I feel smarter every time i read your post's Ford. And quite entertained too. Have a enjoyable and safe trip tomorrow.

All the best.

 

Greg

[Greg F]

Well somebody that hasnt seen this thread wants them. Up at $700 US with 4 days to go!!! Definitely the nicest fakes ive seen till now. Its a shame people put so much effort into deceiving people of their hard earned money.

 

Greg

[lonely panet]

well guys

 

the interest is high $1600 with 3 days to go. got to watch this one

[Curran]

eBay is a weird place.

I rarely visit it, but sometimes deals do pop up.

I've been the only bidder on "out of the woodwork" tsuba for $400, $500, $600 that I sold to Japan or elsewhere for $1600 to $4000.

 

Meanwhile, it is pulling teeth to sell good tsuba there. If I could list on Yahoo!Japan, I would.

[Greg F]

At $3000 and rising!!!!!

 

Greg

[Stephen]

i smell a stinky fish

[Curran]

This takes a turn for the Izakaya.

And will end like this classic: 

[lonely panet]

Oooooccchhh, thats what u call buying your education

[SwordGuyJoe]

Expensive lesson

[lonely panet]

HAHHAHAHAHA $3000 usd 

[Kurikata]

 ​USD 3250 finnaly.... Cheap if real..... So extensive if fake.....

[lonely panet]

I would disagree,

if real they paid more then market price. correct me if wrong.

disregarding the mei, as the only judging the work

[Jean]

Expensive Bruno and not extensive