Bugyotsuji Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Posted June 6, 2012 Another good read, Malcolm. Thank you. And now we know that NE and NW were dangerous directions. When travelling, use your compass to make sure you scrupulously avoid either! (Enryakuji was one of my favorite places when I lived in Kyoto.)
estcrh Posted June 8, 2012 Report Posted June 8, 2012 I found this print of an o-zutsu on a carriage, I do not remember seeing it posted before but in case it has please delete it.
kusunokimasahige Posted June 8, 2012 Report Posted June 8, 2012 Makes me think of this : http://youtu.be/fUb2wvLdhmk KM
estcrh Posted June 10, 2012 Report Posted June 10, 2012 By chance I happened to run into this print, part of The 53 stations of the Tokaido in pairs, a series of woodcuts composed by Hiroshige, Kuniyoshi and Kunisada and issued around 1845 by different publishers, notice the compass which seems to be used as a directional device as the prints description states that "a pirate steers his boat". From http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... _95573.jpg
Baka Gaijin Posted June 10, 2012 Report Posted June 10, 2012 Good morning Eric, Just for fun: The print is from the series Tokkaido Goju san Tsui c. 1845 Station #31 Maisaka Signed Ichiyusai Kuniyoshi ga (with red Yoshi Kiri seal below) It bears a varient of the Publishers mark of Enshu Ya Matabei (Lower rectangular cartouche) and the censor's seal for Mura (Upper circular cartouche). I don't know who the carver was though. (Confusion can arise with various series of the 53 stations, as in other versions Maisaka is station 30 and Arai is 31 etc due to numbering "Nihon bashi - leaving Edo" as the Station No 1 not Shinagawa.........) Cheers
Bugyotsuji Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Posted June 11, 2012 Eric's first print has been posted before in the discussion on putting Tangashima on wheeled carriages. The second one with the compass is great for me, both for the compass and for the clearly-shown Netsuke and anchor pouch clasp. I would like to create a link to the Netsuke site if I may. Many thanks. Henk-Jan... epic fail, and ouch! Malcolm's background information is so good that I am tempted to post some other prints to see what comes up.
Baka Gaijin Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 Morning Piers, At first I mistook the item in our Piratical chum's right hand for a brush, but on closer examination I reckon its a kiseru pipe and he has a kiseruzutsu and tabako-ire (with the anchor clasp) in his left hand. Like this collection: http://m.bonhams.com/auctions/20189/lot ... erence%3D2 Cheers
Bugyotsuji Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Posted June 11, 2012 Yes, I have several of those sets, but wow, that is way too expensive! (The site gave me the word "Mae-kanagu" for the clasp, however, for which I will be eternally grateful if it is definitive. We discussed here on NMB what word might be suitable but after several attempts drew a blank if anyone remembers.)
Baka Gaijin Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 Morning Piers, Regarding the term Mae-kanagu, why not fire off an email to the Japanese department at Bonhams London. There's some basic contact info at the bottom of the link. Check these out: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20190/lot/74/ http://www.malcolmfairley.com/Japanese- ... ls/&w=1280 Addenda... 前金具 seems pretty well used across t'internet Here's one for you Piers http://pri.nir.jp/~nakkaman/12_Color/12_Color-121.html Cheers
Bugyotsuji Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Posted June 11, 2012 You are surely not the same Malcolm... The Tanegashima Mae-kanagu is very nice but sadly not for sale. It seems to be an illustration in the Nakamura Kiyoshi collection catalogue. (This word Mae-kanagu has now cropped up on three sites, Bonhams, M Fairley and Nakamura so I am ready to adopt it.)
Baka Gaijin Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 Good afternoon Piers You are surely not the same Malcolm... There are many Malcolms, as there are many Piers....... Brighton and Wigan to name but two.... And that one is not me.... :lol: Cheers
estcrh Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 Piers, I saw the kiseru but missed the anchor and I thought that what Malcolm is calling a kiseruzutsu was a tiller for the boat, the anchor clasp makes me wonder if people picked these clasps purposely for a specific theme rather than a random decoration that came on a tabako-ire. Malcolm, good information as usual.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 12, 2012 Author Report Posted June 12, 2012 The English title on Wiki for this work: "A Pirate Steers his Boat" must be wrong. "A Pirate keeps an Eye on the Compass and Night Sky" might be better. NB Comparison of this Ukiyo-e with a photo of my compass above shows that the woodblock artist Kuniyoshi had his compass points back-to-front, or inside-out. Atmosphere 100%, Accuracy of detail 75%...
Baka Gaijin Posted June 12, 2012 Report Posted June 12, 2012 Morning Piers, The title on Wikimedia commons is a straight lift from the Walters Art Museum title: I'm reasonably sure the Walters Art Museum print is a later and more simplified version, as there exists a much more intense and colourful rendition with a column of smoke rising over his left shoulder to partially obscure the moon, also the left hand fan bears a complicated pattern overlay in blue, probably four or five more blocks used for this version (with the increase in costs). Compare: http://www.kunisada.de/Kunisada-Tokaido ... %20.htm#p2 http://art.thewalters.org/detail/37047/ ... usan-tsui/ This is the present reading for Maisaka Cho 舞阪町, which is now part of Nishi Ku - Hamamatsu City. Cheers
Bugyotsuji Posted June 12, 2012 Author Report Posted June 12, 2012 A small pic, but a very interesting comparison Malcolm. Many thanks.
Viper6924 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Posted June 15, 2012 Hi! Let´s talk netsuke :D I´ve just strayed far away from swords and teppos and picked up this two charming items at a local auction. The first one is the angry Hankwai with the door under his arm. Ready to wrek mayhem. Love his "fightingface". Unsigned probably late 18th century. The other one is a bundle of chinese coppercoins. Late 18th century. This one have a signature. Anyone? I have a feeling that my Japanese collection is soon going out of hand...or at least out of my designated room. /Jan
watsonmil Posted June 15, 2012 Report Posted June 15, 2012 Dear Jan, Would you mind posting photograph's of the HIMOTOSHI ( openings for the sagemono cords ) for the two netsuke. Thanks. ... Ron Watson
Viper6924 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Posted June 15, 2012 With pleasure, Ron! I hope this is what You mean. /Jan
watsonmil Posted June 15, 2012 Report Posted June 15, 2012 Dear Jan, Although I am not an expert on Netsuke, ... I would think your Netsuke although most likely genuine are a good deal later than 18th Century. The himotoshi on older netsuke usually have one hole much larger than it's companion. This was so that the cord knot could be hidden away from view and from pertruding from the netsuke. I rather like them both, but having said that ... Piers is much more of an authority on netsuke than I. What say you Piers ?? Jan, ... I must say that it is refreshing to see so many of our members developing an interest in Japanese Art forms other than the Nihonto and Kodogu so often discussed ( and rightly so as this is primarily a Nihonto Forum ), ... but my God the quality leaves MUCH to be desired ! Lately I have seen Armour, Prints, Netsuke, Tanegashima, Yanone, and even Compasses pictured and discussed . ... Ron Watson
Viper6924 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Posted June 15, 2012 You might be on to something, Ron. I checked the itemdiscriptions from the auctionhouse and it said late 18th to early 19th century. I agree with You regarding the intrest in the Japanese arts. For me it´s the combination of function and beauty. I also enjoy the researching part. And thats where the NMB comes into play. A great place to find knowledge of the highest level. I have in my collection swords, prints, fittings, armorparts and now netsukes. God only knows where it will end Would be great if Piers or someone else could help with the signature. There I go with the research again Thanks for Your input, Ron! Jan
watsonmil Posted June 15, 2012 Report Posted June 15, 2012 Dear Jan, I don't like to throw a fly into the ointment, ... but I just noticed the wear on Hankwai's cheeks is as even as the wear on his nose and the wear on his tummy is equal to the wear on his out-stretched fist. Although pleasing to look at, ... this would not be normal wear from use if you understand. Perhaps it was done to highlight these areas by the carver, ... or perhaps by someone wanting to give the appearance of long use and age. I note the same unusual patination / wear on the Coin netsuke. I am going to hedge my bets on their authenticity at this point. With the value of fine netsuke being in the hundreds if not thousands of dollars, ... they are very often copied from old netsuke by more modern carvers and passed off as being genuinely old. Lets see what Piers has to say. They are one way or the other beautifully carved. PLEASE do not take my above comments as definitive, ... as I am far from an expert on this subject. I own a few netsuke, perhaps 8 or 9, ... and out of these I can only say that 6 are definitely genuine OLD netsuke. ... Ron Watson
Viper6924 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Posted June 16, 2012 No worries, Ron. This auctionhouse is acctually regarded as on of top one´s in Scandinavia, perhaps northern Europe. The question of authenticity never popped in my mind. Especially because it´s a bit banged up, not signed and sold at a low price. However, if Piers or someone else supports Your train of thoughts, an angry mail is in place But I acctually enjoying the learning experince of the wonderful world of netsuke. Makes collecting nihonto a walk in the park... Looking forward to more comments regarding this subject. Keep em´coming, Ron! Jan
Viper6924 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Posted June 16, 2012 The netsuke thread lives on. I acctually found a very similar netsuke on the net, just now. This one is signed "Masatsugo". They want a whopping 1200 pounds for it. I find the "patina" rather in the same fashion as mine. Not saying that mine is in the same league And Ron, they also thinks it,s 19th century. So You are probably spot on regarding the age. /Jan
Brian Posted June 16, 2012 Report Posted June 16, 2012 Jan, I stay very far away from netsuke primarily because I know nothing about them and the Chinese are turning out vast quantities of these with good workmanship and aged patinas. I hope someone will post this on one of the specialist netsuke forums...I have a suspicion it will turn out to be modern, but would be glad to be wrong. Wood netsuke turns up more than 2000 items on eBay, most for under $20 and some of them very convincing. Boxwood....the choice of most fakers nowdays. Hope yours turns out to be older. Brian
pcfarrar Posted June 16, 2012 Report Posted June 16, 2012 A lot of the chinese fakes fail on the himotoshi. They are often placed in the wrong location making them useless as netsuke. Jan's examples look genuine to me, but I'm no expert and only have a small collection. I purchased one of my favourites from ebay, a boxwood rat catcher signed Nagasada, it has few chips and is well worn, it also has a contemporary repair to the head that has been worked into the design. I just like it from the fact that shows wear from actual use, and the owner must have cared enough about it to get it repaired when the face was damaged.
Viper6924 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Posted June 16, 2012 Looking at the wear, they been around for awhile :D But this can of course be artificial. But I think the coin netsuke shows sign of both older and newer wear around the himotoshi (thats a term I didn´t know 24 hours ago). But I could be dead wrong here. Also the fact it´s not signed perhaps speaks against the "chinese fake" ruling. But again... Where is the teppo-firing Piers when You need him? Jan
pcfarrar Posted June 16, 2012 Report Posted June 16, 2012 Piers has already seen it: http://netsuke.websitetoolbox.com/post/ ... MB-5892081
Viper6924 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Posted June 16, 2012 :D I guess the only thing left is to wait for the verdict... I hope they go gentle on my poor little doorbreaker. Jan
Bugyotsuji Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Posted June 16, 2012 Apologies. This went up as I fell asleep last night and today I have been out all day. I had a quick look and did a quick link from here to the Netsuke site, without having to go through the usual hassle of logging in here again. As you will see the venerable Vlad thinks they are 'genuine' and he prefers the coins. As you will also see, I have avoided coming down either way on these. It pays to remain suspicious, which the auction house probably was. They do not look like modern tourist pieces to me though.
Viper6924 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Posted June 16, 2012 Well I guess it´s kind of a success, anyway. Buying from a big auctionhouse should at least give You some assurance that it´s not a complete fake. However, I have in less than 24 hours learnt that the world of netsuke is a minefield. As with nihontos You must do Your homework. But if I know myself I will probably pick something up sooner or later in the field of netsuke. Could You make something out of the signature, Piers? Thanks for the effort of clearing this up! Jan
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