This Week's Edo Period Corner

[Bugyotsuji]

Small update on the katana pictured above. Completed liquidation of one katana with koshirae, one boy's chigo-zashi, and one Uchine spear means I have now moved into position to clinch the purchase. Procedural and interpersonal considerations have played a bit of a role too. The option is there for me to buy them back at some later date if necessary.

 

This purchase is a bit of a gamble as I still do not know if this Bizen Osafune swordsmith Sukenobu and the Bizen Osafune gunsmith Sukenobu are really the same person. I hope that they are, naturally, but even if they aren't, and I have read conflicting arguments, it will be an opportunity to clear up a corner of late Edo Bizen smiths that has not yet been fully clarified. I have been assured by the powers that be that the sword in question is interesting in its own right, with which opinion I am inclined to concur as the sword has been calling me on an inner line. :lol: One condition of sale is that I allow the sword and gun to be displayed together at some indeterminate future exhibition if and when requested.

[watsonmil]

Dear Piers,

Firstly congratulations on the aquisition of the Sukenobu sword. A comparison of the signature on the gun and sword should ease your mind. You have the benefit of living in Japan, and therefore should have ample resources to draw on to confirm or dispute the signatures as being right or wrong ( that is if you can find two sword experts to agree on ANY signature ). It is interesting going back over 40 years of old documents that I have signed just how much my own signature has changed. I always find it humurous to hear GIMIE everytime someone notes a slight difference in the length or angle of stroke in a character. In fact I note differences in my own signature from day to day let alone year to year and I don't use a chisel to sign ! Anyways the idea of exhibiting your collection ( or part thereof ) is a wonderful way of sharing with fellow collectors or just interested individuals knowledge.

... Ron Watson

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks, that is what I plan to do once the gun is released from the exhibition, Ron. There are several 'experts' on sword Mei living near here, so this will be an interesting exercise to look forward to.

 

(Sadly one of the lockplate pins was lost when the exhibit was being set up so I may have to have a new one made up. Grrrr.... I am guessing the gun took a knock while still inside the bubble wrap and the pin fell out and got lost in the discarded (?) wrappings.)

[watsonmil]

Dear Piers,

When I read your post, ... I did not scroll down far enough to see the photographs. A very nice display. Do you have any more photos to share. If so, I and others would enjoy seeing them. A very impressive castle by the way !

... Ron Watson

[Bugyotsuji]

Not your fault at all, Ron. I added them quietly later after everyone had passed through.

 

They discouraged photography, but I'll see if I can get some more. Did you watch the clips over on the Okayama Castle thread? Just tried to copy and paste but they didn't work.

Halfway down this page...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12677

[Brian]

Makes me realize how badly I want a pistol sized tanegashima

 

Brian

[estcrh]

Piers, that display showing the various bullet sizes is a great visual reference, do you know the sizes of the smallest and largest ones?

[Bugyotsuji]

Brian, the longer you wait, the better the gun you acquire!

 

Eric, well, off-hand the smallest is 1 Monme, and the largest 100 Monme.

 

1 Monme were mainly used for target shooting.

 

As a general rule of thumb, pistols were 3 or 4 Monme.

 

Hunting guns tended to fall into the 4-5 range, I believe.

 

Good battle guns were at about 6 or 7 Monme and the 10 Ju-Monme zutsu was the first of the hefty guns, requiring a markedly bigger charge and bigger Hayago.

 

I have a 20 Monme O-zutsu which I fire towards the end of the display as we start to increase the bang.

 

30 Monme are large and heavy and proved to be about the maximum that could realistically be fired standing up in battle. After a second or two your left arm starts to spasm.

 

Anything above that, ie, 50, 70, 80 Monme required special supports & strapping to fire successfully. We sometimes fire 50 Monme or 80 Monme hand cannons, but you really need to kneel on one knee and support your left arm on the other to be safe.

 

At the other extreme, a 100 Monme ball would go into a very large hand cannon, often substituted by a Bo-hi-ya or flaming iron-tipped projectile for piercing a castle roof. Our Taicho usually fires a 100 Monme as the finale at displays.

[estcrh]

Any historical precedence for this type of O-zutsu?

 

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

From what I understand, 250 years of peace and harmony in Edo Japan meant that more and more far-fetched objects were attempted, created and presented to titillate the interest of the bored ruling classes. Hand cannons grew ever larger and even a 1,000 Monme was produced and fired.

 

Real cannons, or mortars on blocks or carriages became strangely deformed as gunsmiths competed to fashion extremes which could fire over set distances within certain parameters. (Shades of Crufts dogs?)

 

The very shortest barrel I ever saw meant that the 100 Monme ball balanced on the inside front edge of the muzzle, half in and half out, but was still able to be fired as a regular cannon. I tried to buy one last year but sadly it got sold to someone else while I was out of the country. Out of its block and standing upright on its butt you would never have guessed it was a cannon; I was planning to carry it in my luggage as a bronze ashtray or incense holder for a table-top conversation piece back in the old country.

 

Yours fits that tradition happily, IMHO. Inside muzzle diameter usually 4 cm. I wouldn't call it an O-zutsu as it was not designed to be fired in the hands. The writer of the famous J book "Hinawa Ju" Mr Sokichi Tokoro 所　荘吉　calls them Hiya-zutsu. (The block and metalwork looks to have been replaced more recently... well the block anyway. The ironwork band is too perfectly rusted to the same color/colour as the barrel so I suspect it has been aged by application of 'jidai' and 'aji' to come out like that. Very nice all the same.)

[estcrh]

  Bugyotsuji said:

The writer of the famous J book "Hinawa Ju" Mr Sokichi Tokoro 所　荘吉　calls them Hiya-zutsu.

Very interesting Piers, 1000 mon!!! By hiya-zutsu can I assume Mr Tokoro meant that this type would be for firing bo-hiya? I have heard the term "taihon" being used as a term for bo-hiya mortar, is this any were near correct?

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Yes, Eric, and the little white card bottom left actually says Hiyazutsu, I think.

 

"Taiho" generally means large (ship's) cannon or field artillery, but if used to describe the things above 'Taiho' would be conceptually close. How about 'mini Taiho' or baby Taiho? :lol:

[estcrh]

  Bugyotsuji said:

Yes, Eric, and the little white card bottom left actually says Hiyazutsu, I think.

 

"Taiho" generally means large (ship's) cannon or field artillery, but if used to describe the things above 'Taiho' would be conceptually close. How about 'mini Taiho' or baby Taiho? :lol:

Thanks Piers, there does not seem be any set design for these types of small cannon.

[Bugyotsuji]

There are large signs asking visitors not to take photos of the exhibits. Despite that I got a further underhand shot for you Eric today. We had to escort ten members of the Kinki "Nikkoken", Armor/Armour Society around the Prefectural Museum, the castle and the sword museum. Being the start of Golden Week, it was quite crowded in there so I felt extra guilty.

 

The sign says roughly:

 

One Monme = 3.75 gm. A Monme is a unit under the old Shakkan-Ho weights system. You will hear talk about 10-Monme zutsu (guns) or 100-Monme zutsu (guns), but this comes from the distinction in the weight of the ball fired from the Hinawa-Ju matchlock. The 100 Monme ball on the right thus weighs 375 gm.

[Bugyotsuji]

PS Today I was allowed to handle a sword made from 'inseki', meteorite. I asked the smith if you can tell that it has meteorite mixed in and he said yes, from the 'uneri'. He said it would be difficult to make it all from meteorite, which is why it is mixed. Tachi. Suguha. Togi half complete.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Piers, By uneri I guess you mean 畝ねり ? That would be a damascene look due to the alloy from the meteorite and terrestial steel? Eh? John

[cabowen]

I have seen a sword made with the addition of meteorite as well (made by So Tsutomu) and yes, with a high nickel content, the boundaries between layers become more apparent and the hada starts to look a bit like damascus steel....

 

The sword I saw was....well, let's just say, interesting.....

[Bugyotsuji]

Well, I had only heard rumors/rumours of such things until now, so I was pleased to handle one made by the smith himself. Thanks gentlemen for the background information!

 

"Ryusei-To", "Intetsu-To"... from J Wiki.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B5%81% ... F%E5%88%80

[estcrh]

  Bugyotsuji said:

Piers, thanks for risking arrest and taking that second picture of the tanegashima ammo.

Here is one that is not as complete from Fred Weissburg who happens to have a couple of tanegashima for sale.

 

 

http://www.nihonto.com/itemsalemisc.html

[Bugyotsuji]

This antler section is 10.5 cm long and has a circular recess of 3 cm in one end.

 

Found in a good quality antique stall in Japan.

 

Could it be a Netsuke, or the handle of a knife or tool, possibly Ainu? Curved, it fits well into the palm of the hand.

 

PS Screw simply for depth reference. Walls of cavity smooth.

[Baka Gaijin]

Good morning Piers,

 

It's an interesting piece and looks old.

 

I was taught to ask the following block question related to form and function "If it's Netsuke, how would it take the himo strands which would then go through the ojime and into the inro itself; how would it tie and how would it sit when mounted through the obi??"

 

Daily, I see a lot of the modern miniature carvings which are "homage" to netsuke, and although they now have one hole larger than the other, when one asks the question, the answer comes that they invariably would not "sit" correctly if strung for wearing. (eg figural subjects upside down, Kana subjects similar).

 

Have a look at these sales for some amazing Netsuke Ojime Inro combinations.

 

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20189/

 

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19295/

 

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19548/

 

 

Cheers

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Malcolm, thanks for the links. Over on the Netsuke site someone suggested "a parasol handle", which people collect, and which just about fits the bill.

[Baka Gaijin]

Morning Piers,

 

A parasol handle makes sense.

 

Have you got a link to the netsuke site?

 

Cheers

[Bugyotsuji]

Malcolm, here is the page where I posted the question, post#863:

http://netsuke.websitetoolbox.com/post/ ... ?trail=870

 

There is also a link to an Ojime seemingly made by the same process/person. (?)

[Baka Gaijin]

Evening Piers,

 

Thanks for the link,

 

Interesting decoration on both items, I'm not sure about the infills being Cloisonné because of the heat issues involved.

 

You say the one is possibly antler and what about the ojime.......bone or ivory?

 

Definitely not ceramic?

 

I've a friend who deals in Cloisonné, I'll let him see the images.

 

Cheers

[Bugyotsuji]

Malcolm, I am using the word cloisonne fairly loosely as I cannot think of a better word for the moment. The design fields are defined in twisted metal (brass?) wire and instead of enamel they are filled with what looks like lacquer. The underlying material is bone or more likely stag antler in both cases.

[watsonmil]

Dear Piers,

There is something reminisent of TIBET art in the antler handle. Just a gut feeling I have, ... it reminds me of something I've seen before, ... I just cannot place it for sure. If it is Japanese at all, ... my guess would be the Ainu.

... Ron Watson

[Bugyotsuji]

Thank you for the consideration, Ron. The Ojime I bought in Himeji, and the handle from a dealer in Kyoto who said he bought it from a dealer in Nagoya. The fact that they are both in Japan and one is an Ojime does suggest a Japanese archipelago provenance, and the Ainu possibility has to be considered.

[watsonmil]

Dear Piers,

I am sorry that I did not see the Ojime before posting my dribble about Tibet ( although I believe the Tibetans also made small ojime like beads ), .... so to be honest I'm not 100 % sure my Tibet theory is dribble. It's getting too late here to think logically, so excuse my contradictions. If it is Japanese in origin, .... it is most unusual. Did the Ainu produce for trade any Netsuke, Ojime, Sagemono ? I do not believe I have seen any photos of them using such accessories themselves. Very unusual items. I would agree that the handle could well be for a parasol, .... but where does the Ojime fit into that cinerio .... which brings me back to the Tibetan theory .

... Ron Watson

[Baka Gaijin]

Good morning Piers,

 

I've showed the images of both to an ethnographic dealer friend and his opinion was the infill in both is a gum or resin based pigment.

 

He suggested rosary for the ojime and the Siberian coastline for the antler.

 

Cheers