estcrh Posted June 7, 2011 Report Posted June 7, 2011 This was what was inside the bukuro, it seems to be either a sode-jirushi or a kasa-jirushi, a badge worn on armor for the shoulder or helmet as a substitute for the larger sashimono.
IanB Posted June 7, 2011 Report Posted June 7, 2011 Eric, Well. Well. You don't see them often. Ian Bottomley
Bugyotsuji Posted June 7, 2011 Author Report Posted June 7, 2011 Evalerio should be able to tell you more about them, Eric. I like the colour and design! See: http://forums.samurai-archives.com/view ... 6b85fc34ac In the meantime, my Dad says whoever calls me names should come and see him first.
estcrh Posted June 7, 2011 Report Posted June 7, 2011 Eric, Well. Well. You don't see them often.Ian Bottomley Ian your right and I cant find out of there was really a difference between the sode-jirushi and the kasa-jirushi other than the placement. As for imagesl not many real ones to be found. This one looks old but I cant really say how old. Here are two images from an old Japanese text which by the sizes stated would indicate that the one I have might be a kasa-jirushi. http://rhinohide.cx/tousando/yoriaku/ Sode-jirushi and Kasa-jirushi The sode-jirushi is a badge worn on the shoulder-plate. The kasa-jirushi is a badge worn on the helmet. These are used in place of the (more cumbersome) sashimono in night attacks, ambushes, sea fights, and on stormy days. For private soldiers they are used as regimental badges. The length of the sode-jirushi is about 7.25 to 8.5 inches, and of kasa-jirushi from a foot to 15.5 inches. The sode-jirushi worn on the right shoulder, and the kasa-jirushi attached to a ring (kasa-jirushi-no-wa) at the back of the helmet. It is necessary to wear them to be easily recognized from a distance.
kusunokimasahige Posted June 7, 2011 Report Posted June 7, 2011 The sign on the banner looks like a Buddhist Sanskrit letter to me, anyone know what it means ? KM PS, love the gnomes!!
Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Posted June 7, 2011 Report Posted June 7, 2011 The sign on the banner looks like a Buddhist Sanskrit letter to me, anyone know what it means ? Henk, guess It reminds you Marishiten, but I'd hesitate to state it for sure.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Posted June 8, 2011 Piers, Gnomes? Gnomes, you say??? Come here and say that!
Bugyotsuji Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Posted June 8, 2011 Eric, have a play around with this page, but go down below the stones. You will find some of the Sanskrit letters that were popular and the meanings and associations that they carried for the Japanese in the middle ages. http://kuubokumon.com/bonji.html
sanjuro Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Eric. The bonji is one of the variations of Kanman Fudo I think.....or possibly Daikokuten at a stretch. Marishiten is also similar.
christianmalterre Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Could this character perhaps also be a variation of "GO"? So perhaps from an Tsukai-Ban? (really don´t know..) Christian
IanB Posted June 8, 2011 Report Posted June 8, 2011 Eric, I echo your doubts about kasa jirushi or sode jirushi. A few years ago I was in a shop in Japan and saw what I thought was one hanging on a nail. It is not as posh as yours, just a piece of bamboo with a small square of white cloth sewn on and with an angled swelling line in ink. Without a doubt a very temporary thing. I asked the price and the owner gave it me saying in effect it was no value. I asked if it was a sode jirushi and he said it might have been. Then as I was leaving, he grinned and said 'It might also have been a luggage label'. I'm bound to get shot down here, but sode jirushi seem to have been in common usage in the Bakumatsu period (I've seen photos of guys wearing European frock coats with them), but kasa jirushi seem to have been far less common if used at all. Ian
estcrh Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 Piers, are you going to tell us what the troll things are? I would like to see a translation of the writing on the bukuro that the jirushi came in to see if they are related, if anyone can help with that please post your thoughts.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Posted June 9, 2011 軍扇 = gunsen, war fan(s) Eric, quoting myself from the previous page, that is what is written on the bag. The two elegant figures... (Trolls, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ) are two versions of an ancient Chinese scholar/god. Often confused with each other, they are called either Fukurokuju or Jurojin in Japanese, and are usually depicted with high foreheads. The short one is a two-hundred-yr-old 'Netsuke' that I bought about two months ago. Originally worn decoratively on the top edge of the Obi to hang Sagemono from, now worth several hundred dollars. The taller one is a fairly modern 'Okimono' (standing object) and the moment I saw it I wanted it for addition to the family. (No, not trolls, or gnomes or eggheads!)
estcrh Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 The high foreheads symbolize large brains? (Chinese scholar/god) I have a gunsen that could use a bukuro, thanks.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Posted June 9, 2011 Eric, have a gander at these! http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/fukurokuju.shtml http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/jurojin.shtml
estcrh Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 Eric, have a gander at these! http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/fukurokuju.shtml http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/jurojin.shtml Piers, quite a treasure trove of information.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Posted June 9, 2011 Ah, but has it left you any the wiser? :lol:
Bugyotsuji Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Posted June 9, 2011 Not quite sure where to post this. I bought another Tanegashima Matchlock the other day. The gun is in pristine condition and looks to have been used very little. The barrel bears the Mei 国友林右衛門 重当 Kunitomo Rin (Hayashi) Uemon Juto/Shigeto, and the number 四 can be seen inside the Dogane brass band. Inside the belly of the stock is written in brush ink the stock maker's name 伴 治平斎（？）基重 and the number 四. It appears to be a 6 Monme, 1.6, 1.7 cm caliber. (The authorities made a mistake on the Torokusho 1.3 cm, LOL, so I will have to have it reregistered next week.) The gun 'feels' to be about the same age as my 1.7 cm Kumamoto Castle Hosokawa long gun, which is dated 1847. Whereas that one is a military gun through and through and bears the shape of the manufacturing area, Higo in Kyushu, this 'new' Kunitomo gun is typical of the Ogino-Ryu school of gunnery and, typical for Kunitomo, lacks any defining Kunitomo regional characteristic. Two back sights and one forward, inner lock mechanism and iron serpentine. What is interesting is that despite this gun having no decoration on it at all (the plain drilled Mekugi-ana having no surrounds, and there is no decorative non-functional brasswork on it anywhere) my gun collector friends have been drooling over it and congratulating me on a very wise purchase. What are they seeing? Beauty in simplicity of function? Lack of ostentation? Singularity of purpose?
Bugyotsuji Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Posted June 9, 2011 The previous owner polished up all the brasswork so it will take a while to settle down to a good ole patina.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Posted June 9, 2011 Overall shot, and the plainness of the reverse.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Posted June 9, 2011 Oh, and two of the first things to check when you consider purchasing one of these.
watsonmil Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 Dear Piers, A very lovely example. I rather like the austerity as compared to the over-embelished. These mid size guns were I think considered suitable weaponry for higher ranking Samurai as compared to Ashigaru. It's austerity ( but quality ) denote it more for battlefield use as compared to target shooting or show. How did you manage to get this past the wife ... that is the question. Anyways its a refreshment from looking at beat up swords and soft furry creatures that have predominated this forum of late. My heartiest congratulations . ... Ron Watson
IanB Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 Piers, That is the best preserved screw thread I've ever seen - absolutely pristine. Makes you think this gun has never been shot, or at least it has been properly stripped and cleaned after shooting. What a lovely practical gun. I have just been reviewing a catalogue of a kakae zutsu dated 1820 with more decoration per square inch (or is that square sun) than the ceilings in Versailles. This one has a splatter of aoi kamon around the muzzle and along the stock, with the rest of the barrel covered in clouds, dragons, and for some inexplicable reason, maple leaves. At the breech is a waterfall in silver, minogame and Buddhist deities. Rather a confusing decorative theme to put it mildly. It has a swishy lacquered box - all nashiji with aoi kamon, like the very best sword boxes. What yours and the one I have been looking at suggest is that the Tokugawa, and possibly other daimyo, were still able to commission guns at such a late period. This is not the impression you get from authors like Perry who suggest that gun making had been virtually stamped out by the 1750's - particularly for anyone other than the Tokugawa authorities. Ian Bottomley
estcrh Posted June 9, 2011 Report Posted June 9, 2011 Ah, but has it left you any the wiser? :lol:Only time can tell that, but it will be my go to site for Buddhist info now.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Posted June 10, 2011 Eric, there is such a mass of detail there that you are wise to keep it for future reference! Ian, your observations are spot on. With the increasing appearance of Western ships off the shores of Japan the Tokugawa started to increase their orders for more guns. Bunsei/Bunka period, 1800-1830. In order to rearm the whole country, it took time to increase numbers though, where the industry had been seriously wound down. Your catalogue sounds fascinating. Ron, yes, it is a Samurai gun, Shizutsu, expressly designed for the battlefield. I bought it for practical use in our displays here. You startled me with the bit about the wife. I did follow the Three Golden Rules. 1. What the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve over. I replaced it in the gun case and moved old trusty to my place of work, hoping she won't notice the subtle difference in appearance. 2. If she does say something I have some clever back-up plans. An old lady left it to me in her will. Years ago, don't you remember? 3. I sold the other one and bought this one out of the profits, with enough left over to fix that broken guttering. Besides, where does she think I got the money for her airfare from? 1
Lorenzo Posted June 10, 2011 Report Posted June 10, 2011 Piers, the best in all this is she doesn't look at what you write on the internet, you are a lucky man my friend :D
estcrh Posted June 10, 2011 Report Posted June 10, 2011 A beautiful example, thanks once again for the excellent pictures. I recently saw a very unadorned Tanegashima for sale and it caught my eye immediately, I thought it would languish there unsold but it sold right away, probably a good thing or I would have eventually convinced myself that it needed rescuing.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Posted June 10, 2011 Lorenzo, your wife looks at what you write!!! How can that be? Eric, maybe you were not meant to own it. I have a list of excuses in my brain for self-preservation, without which I would buy everything that came my way, selling the wife and the house in the process. In this case, however, not one of them worked and the gun ended up sliding into my hands. Rules of self-preservation. 1. Don't get up and go to that early antiques market. Enjoy the lie-in. 2. Get up and get dressed and go, but take all the money out of your wallet, except for say 50 bucks. Hide your cash card somewhere in the car where you are highly likely to forget it. 3. Go with someone who also has strong will-power, and vow to help each other buy nothing. 4. Look at an object, fine, but bite your tongue and do NOT ask the price. 5. Feel no pity for the antiques dealer, and marvel at how you can say "I am just doing a circuit first." 6. Vow not to go back to that stall. 7. Think of sex. 8. When you come back to the stall, don't catch the holder's eye. If he/she is with a customer, take that as a sign from Allah/Jehovah. Fervently hope and pray he has sold it to someone else, completely, finally and irrevocably removing the temptation to break all your vows and buy the damn thing. 9. Do not make friends with any of the dealers, or they might allow you to take it and pay later. 10. Tell the dealer that you want it, but your wife came too, and you can feel her eyes boring into the nape of your neck... 1
Bugyotsuji Posted June 11, 2011 Author Report Posted June 11, 2011 How's your translation machine? In this article... http://www.asahi.com/kansai/news/OSK201106060007.html ...it says that on the 5th of this month (June) at Azuchi Castle a group of four had dressed up in armour to do a live firing display. During the reloading of his 30 Monme O-zutsu one bloke accidentally set off his hand-cannon and sustained very serious burns to his face. (The grim details have not been published.) Well, this has had a very negative affect on the Police and authorities regarding the holding of such events. It was already hard enough. We had to apply in triplicate back in February for the big display in Akashi tomorrow. Suddenly they withdrew the permits and asked us what extra guarantees we could give to justify going ahead with the event, the centrepiece of so-called 'Time Week'. Our leader was quite displeased with the bloke who had thought he was a real expert, but never considered that his actions might reflect on all matchlock companies throughout Japan. He wasn't even a proper member of a Teppo-tai, but simply someone who enjoyed shooting guns (5 modern guns in his cabinet) and made an elementary mistake. Luckily the police accepted our supporting paperwork and reassurances that we are not a bunch of looney gun collectors or amateur shooters, but we do this properly and responsibly as a Martial Art. Anyway I will be up at 3:00 am tomorrow (Sunday) to leave at 4. They have asked me to help dress the present Daimyo of Akashi who will be joining our procession (his very first return for his family to Akashi) and wants to wear full armor/armour once in his life, as do his present-day Karo and retainers. The Mayor of Hagi also will be coming from Yamaguchi to observe, because I believe they are considering setting up a Choshu teppo-tai and want to see an example of what can be done.
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