estcrh Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Piers, I too have had wonderful times picking up 'rubbish' in the flea-markets of Tokyo and Kyoto. You are right, so much is regarded as junk that they just don't rate. I've had tsuka covers and saya covers for peanuts - items that just didn't seem to have been brought back in Victorian times and hardly ever occur in the UK. This statement reminded me of a few items I had stashed away, here are a few pictures of some saya and tsuka covers and one long cover that I am not sure what it was for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanB Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Eric, Your long cover is for a yari. I once had one, with its saya, that it would have fitted. It is one of the very few items I bitterly regret parting with. I remember trading with it but not what for. In those days there was so much about you always had the feeling that another would come along - needless to say it didn't. It is now a very long time ago, but as I remember the blade was some 33" long with a short shaft about 4 foot long. The blade had a very broad deep groove so that in section it was much like a piece of angle-iron for much of its length to keep the weight down. It had this long saya, covered in that deeply dimpled black lacquer, that flared out at the base just like your cover. All I remember was that it was by a Soshu smith about 1580. Ah well - you can't keep everything. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Eric, Your long cover is for a yari. I once had one, with its saya, that it would have fitted....... Ah well - you can't keep everything.Ian Thanks Ian, I was wondering if it might have been for a Tanegashima, that would be one wicked yari. Actually everything we have we are just holding for the next person in line. Something like this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted May 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 My goodness, Eric, you do come up with some unusual things! Yes, I have parted with things over the years and just occasionally one thing really causes regrets. Anyway, I was meaning to post this earlier today to illustrate some of Eric's bits, but only just got around to it. I do not think it is old, per se, but quite an interesting scene. (The red seal says 箱根八里） 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Piers, great picture, it looks like the samurai have covers on the tsuka of their swords, do the retainers only have one sword? Those poles for carrying trunks, an example of something that must have been very common at one time and yet I have never seem one for sale, just a small square pole but were have they all gone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curgan Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I believe that these tsuba covers would be a necessity when traveling in the dusty Japanese roads... At least for the silk ito of the samurai, the ashigaru were not a factor to consider anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted May 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yes, and yes. I'll post a close-up or two today. Get as close as the artist ever got! :lol: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 There is a section of yahoo Japan that carries an odd assortment of everyday objects, its fun to just look at these types of things, you see some real gems here from time to time, a lot of junk to but every once in a while..... https://www.jauce.com/view.php?seturl=h ... -leaf.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted May 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Oops. I got all kinds of warning bells and whistles when I clicked on that... PS pics posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Oops. I got all kinds of warning bells and whistles when I clicked on that... PS pics posted above. Dont worry Piers, its safe I dont believe I have seen those tsuka covers being used before, I like those uniforms to, some sour looking individuals though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanB Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Eric, Yes, something like that but not quite as big in the blade and without a tsuba. The saya in the background is just about the silliest I've seen. To think some poor cow donated its hide to that confection. As for the whereabouts of all the square carrying poles, they are stored in the same warehouse as the noses from menpo, sashimono poles and maedate. I would love to find out where its located. Ian Bottomley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 The saya in the background is just about the silliest I've seen. To think some poor cow donated its hide to that confection. As for the whereabouts of all the square carrying poles, they are stored in the same warehouse as the noses from menpo, sashimono poles and maedate. I would love to find out where its located. Ian, to be fair that yari is a supposed to be a recreation of some mythical yari "Otegine" Yes were are all those sashimono poles???, there must have been vast amounts of these tansu, hitsu poles and sashimono poles but they have mysteriously vanished. Probably recycled into some object we just do not recognize the origin of. Here is an example, a kanabo that was made from some other object, I just cant figure out what. The square end reminds me of one of those carrying poles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 You may well be right Eric. Someone has made a kanabo-looking object out of readily available material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 By the way, does anyone know what those tsuka and saya covers are called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted May 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 As far as I know, Eric, these were called Tsuka-bukuro. There was also a Saya-bukuro for the sheath. With guns they used a Teppo-bukuro. Presumably with a spear, the Fukuro was to cover the Saya, so it could have been a Yari-no-saya-bukuro, or a Yarizaya-bukuro. This weekend I have been asking around experts and dealers to see if there might not be a Hasami-bako Sao carrying-pole somewhere. Even worm-eaten. The general opinion is, as Ian says, they are as rare as hen's teeth, (to use the gentler of the two expressions). Now if the porters gladly threw them all away or turned them into axe handles, short spears, etc., then I wonder if it might not have been an expression of freedom from the feudal era? If each one of them had one family pole handed down, then each of the people caught at the bottom of society might have been happy to trash this symbol of their slavery??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 Piers, thanks for the terms and for asking about those handles. , I took a little closer look at the kanabo and it really looks like it was a carrying handle in a former life, it is square on one end and part way down the shaft there is a u shaped groove were the handle of a trunk could rest to keep the trunk from slipping while being carried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanjuro Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Eric. Not necessarily in a former life....... Perhaps a dual purpose item? Its hard to carry both a weapon and a box on a pole. Why not have the pole function as a kanebo in an emergency? Looking at the piece in question it could still function in either capacity exactly as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted June 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Double post here. One is an Ishi-tsuki for a Yari. Now about two or three years ago someone on this site (...Jean?) asked me f I could get Ishi-tsuki. They do occasionally come up, so for some reason I bought this one this morning. A bit rusty. Length 8cm, internal diameter 2.7cm, internal depth 2.5cm, two holes. The second object is ... well, let's see if anyone can guess correctly! Overall length 24cm (9.5 inches) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 ...................... The second object is ... well, let's see if anyone can guess correctly! Overall length 24cm (9.5 inches) Maybe ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted June 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Well, points for imagination but, no. Hint. This tool was used by an official when straw was still in daily use in Japanese life. PS If anyone cannot stand the suspense, let me know and I will post another piccie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Then, this may be the answer. Ref. http://www.geocities.jp/kounit/mingu/ko ... asasi.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted June 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Ah, now that is very close, but not exactly the same, because those were used in every household, but the one in the sheath above is a) not hollow all the way through and b) it was used by an inspector in the district government warehouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Yes, I think I knew that. I could not find the exact picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted June 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Yes, I think I knew that. I could not find the exact picture. Thank you for those links. I didn't realize that the bale was set in the ceiling beams and rice was drawn off from the sack with a hypodermic like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Thats a great site link with a lot of pictures of old everyday items. http://www.geocities.jp/kounit/mingu/fr ... kuzi1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Eric. Not necessarily in a former life....... Perhaps a dual purpose item? Its hard to carry both a weapon and a box on a pole. Why not have the pole function as a kanebo in an emergency? Looking at the piece in question it could still function in either capacity exactly as it is. Keith I hadnt thought of that, you could be right and that would explain why someone went to the trouble in the first place to make such an item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Here is another bukuro, I am not sure if the item it contains is the right one for this bukuro but maybe someone here will know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted June 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 軍扇 gunsen, war fans? How big is that bag? http://www.kyokusho.com/mikawaya/touken/O-02.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estcrh Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 軍扇 gunsen, war fans? How big is that bag?http://www.kyokusho.com/mikawaya/touken/O-02.htm Piers, it is 17 inches long and it has an interesting item inside but not a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanjuro Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Eric. This is show and tell remember? ...... What's in the pesky bag ?????????? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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