Bugyotsuji Posted April 28, 2011 Author Report Posted April 28, 2011 Thanks Eric. Once the carrying of swords was banned, it must have felt almost natural to push something like that through your 'bando' sash/belt.
estcrh Posted April 28, 2011 Report Posted April 28, 2011 Piers, thats a really nice example of a naeshi jutte, I have only seen a couple of jutte with tsuka and nakago. How long is it?
Bugyotsuji Posted April 28, 2011 Author Report Posted April 28, 2011 Piers, thats a really nice example of a naeshi jutte, I have only seen a couple of jutte with tsuka and nakago. How long is it? Hmmm... I saw, but didn't buy. (A little over my budget...even at the trade price.) It must have been about 55cm overall.
Bugyotsuji Posted April 28, 2011 Author Report Posted April 28, 2011 While I have the camera out... This Maedate seems to be made of some copper alloy. It could have been burnt in a fire, as it has dark patches on it. I will be consulting with a shokunin over how to restore the look of the original surface.
Bugyotsuji Posted April 29, 2011 Author Report Posted April 29, 2011 No idea what Mon this is, but this is what it looks like on the Toppai helmet under different lighting conditions. Hmmm.... Might wear this Maedate on Children's Day, 5/5 at the Ancient Martial Arts Display. Make a change from the old Yattoko/Kuginuki.
watsonmil Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Dear Piers, The discolouration you mentioned may be due to overheating when the back was soldered onto the Maedate. It may have come loose at sometime and whom ever re-attached it applied excessive heat. Copper and brass are very susceptible to discolouration on over heating. I believe you can remove this by heavy polishing, .... but then you would have to re-patinate. You might ask Ford, ... he could possibly give you better direction than I. ... Ron Watson
Bugyotsuji Posted April 30, 2011 Author Report Posted April 30, 2011 Thank you Ron. What you say makes sense.
Bugyotsuji Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Posted May 4, 2011 Still trying to find which family might have used this crest. The main theme is Agari/Nobori-Fuji, rising wisteria, to which this family will trace their general spiritual roots, I guess. The tips are pointed outwards. At the top between the fronds is a Kage/In sukashi chrysanthemum of ten petals. In the center/centre is what looks like 岩 so a family name beginning with Iwa- or Gan-...? The top of the character is quite stylized and reminiscent of the single Mon Kenzan with a Ken blade in the central stroke. 山
Bugyotsuji Posted May 9, 2011 Author Report Posted May 9, 2011 This thread is a little like the 1001 Nights, where the young wife had to come up with a new story every night to save her own neck. (Kabuto naming since edited) The Maedate above was well received and was even photographed for the SamuraiBaka blog. People thought I should not have polished it, though. After the photos above I polished it again until it shone so brightly that people had to turn their faces away. It looks great, and that is how it must have looked when new. (Shades of Himiko firing the sun at her opponents from the mirror on her helmet?) The back of the Maedate is still untouched, however, bent and dark and deep with lovely jubbly patina. The pointed 'toppai' Kabuto I am rather fond of, but when a Tetsu-sabi-ji Toppai/Namban came up over the weekend I just had to have it. So, following some sacrifice of other beautiful things I am now the proud owner of not one but TWO pointy Kabuto, one in lacquer and one in iron. PS Photos may follow at some point...
Bugyotsuji Posted May 10, 2011 Author Report Posted May 10, 2011 Here come the promised pics. Trying out two different Maedate. One, a Hachisuka Kamon mirror with a 13c date on it... http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%9C%82% ... 0%E6%B0%8F And the other, the Ki 木 Kamon of... 高木氏（源氏）、木村氏（源氏）、木内氏（藤原）、鈴木氏(藤原）、青木氏（丹治）と多くの武家が使用しています。 ...according to this blog: http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/xcfmh521/58136814.html Hatamoto Kuroiwa-shi (but no cross pieces...?) cf http://www.finesword.co.jp/sale/kodougu ... /k1310.htm
Bugyotsuji Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Posted May 12, 2011 Quick note of apology. In the posts above, and previously, I have referred to these helmets as 'Toppai' (pointed top) or 'Donguri' (acorn). While the expression 'Donguri' exists, a close friend has recently insisted they be called 'Namban Kabuto' They are comparatively rare, he assures me. Possibly true Namban are. The Tetsu-sabi-ji above is especially interesting for the eyebrows Uchidashi in the Mabisashi. Toppai (sounds like 'Top Pie' as in Apple 'Pie') Kabuto... !
IanB Posted May 12, 2011 Report Posted May 12, 2011 Piers, I think you may have been a little hasty in editing your text. Sasama in his monumental 'Nihon Katchu Bugu Jiten' p.314, illustrates helmets in this style and calls them TOPPAI KABUTO (and uses furigana). He also illustrates those varieties that get concave towards the apex which strictly are in the shape of a writing brush whose name at the moment escapes me. Whilst you don't exactly trip over them, toppai kabuto are not all that uncommon. There are some made by the Saotome and the Unkai, but most are anonymous although I suspect the Haruta were involved. Why your informant should call them 'NAMBAN KABUTO' I do not know. That term is properly reserved for helmets modelled on cabacettes, morions, Korean hats and the like. There is also a large number of odd-ball helmets that get called namban kabuto whose inspiration you can only guess at. But yours are not of that group - they are standard toppai kabuto. By the way, I much prefer the lacquered one. Ian Bottomley
Bugyotsuji Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Posted May 12, 2011 Ian, thank you for your reply. I was waiting and hoping you were lurking here somewhere. The phone rang today and I was told firmly that the correct word is Namban. Now this is a person that I cannot contradict openly. A friend of his (and through him, mine, but indirectly) is one of the top appraisers of kabuto and Menpo in Japan, and has a fabulous collection. I suspected that this information may have come from him, so I just accepted it as passed along. Big mistake, possibly. Thanks for the heads-up. (I noticed Sasama's book on his shelf when I visited his office a few months ago. He also liked the lacquered one, like No.1 on p. 220 but no Hachimanza, so I am wondering if they were trying to get me to swap, not expecting me to buy both.) I will definitely mention that Sasama calls them toppai... which reminds me, I just bought that book second-hand recently! Jet lag does wonders to the brain. Let's have a look... hmmm... I see what you mean. Anyway, the iron one (cf No. 15), seems to hit the spot with Japanese people as there was a bit of a competition to get it, and people offered me all kinds of congratulations. Tetsu-sabi-ji seems to be popular here, as is Uchidashi. (Well, these features add to the price.) PS You were referring to the Hit-tou-nari Kabuto (writing brush) and not the Momo-nari, right? PPS No.9 is a Kaki-nari (persimmon) shape, also quite similar. Many thanks again for your advice. I will go back and re-edit, fiendishly cleverly as always... :lol:
Bugyotsuji Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Posted May 12, 2011 Just found out that what I was calling Uchidashi (hammered out work) above on the Mabisashi is exactly that, but that parｔicular shape is called Sasa-mayu, or embossed Bamboo-leaf eyebrows. P 334 Sasama's Nihon no Kachu Bugu Jiten (Thanks to Ian for relighting my boiler.)
IanB Posted May 12, 2011 Report Posted May 12, 2011 Piers, The unlacquered finish has always been admired since you can see the quality of the metalwork. When lacquered there could be all manner of nasty things going on. However, it cost money to do a good lacquer job and the gilded suji on yours would seem to indicate a better quality helmet. Hito nari - yes that was it - just couldn't remember. There are so many of these terms, most of which I suspect were never used in the past. Many years ago I came across a helmet described as an 'hour of the hare helmet' After writing to Sasama, it was all explained - hour of the hare is sunrise - rivets on a helmet are called hoshi, as are stars - at the hour of the hare, sunrise, the stars can no longer be seen - in other words a helmet in which the rivets cannot be seen - in other words a helmet with countersunk rivets. For goodness sake!!!! Ian B
Bugyotsuji Posted May 13, 2011 Author Report Posted May 13, 2011 Thanks for the background. Wonderful story. PS Forgot to mention that the iron helmet has Yotsu-wari-bishi, (Takeda-bishi) Kamon on the fukukaeshi. In case anyone is interested, the trick to get all the plates to join together at the top of the helmet is said to have been quite a prodigious exercise. Chopping them off (like the top of a boiled egg) and inserting a Hachimanza was an easier way to get a neat-looking finish.
Bugyotsuji Posted May 15, 2011 Author Report Posted May 15, 2011 Back on pp.90-91 of this thread, John was guessing who might have made a Chigo-zashi boy's sword. Below was his guess, and at the time I made no particular comment. (The Mei itself reads Amahide.) No, but, something like Toshiyoshi, 寿吉 Long life and luck. What a wild guess this is!! Of course it could be the ubiquitous Jumyo 壽命 and there was one in the Bunsei period, Joshu Orui ju Minamoto Jumyo. John Well, I showed it to someone who is more an expert in Kodogu, and I was talking to him again today and his opinion is that the blade being Masame in character, and the whole of the Koshirae is to him typical of Shinshinto Mino, specifically Jumyo. 寿命 So your answer may have been a whole lot closer than I gave you credit for. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2554&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1335 Apologies if this is a part repost, but credit needs to be given where credit is due!
Bugyotsuji Posted May 16, 2011 Author Report Posted May 16, 2011 The following 'No-bento' (?) evokes the Edo Period to me. The iron reinforced carrying handles with square holes show where a pole was pushed through for carrying, e.g. on the Sankin Kotai trip to and from Edo. Perhaps it should be more gorgeously decorated with Kamon etc., but its very dark simplicity called me to it. Despite some damage, it is in generally good condition with all the main bits still extant. The large sake box has a spout hole in the top corner. Black lacquered wood and iron. Pics. Exploded and unexploded, with closeups of the sliding locks.
Bugyotsuji Posted May 16, 2011 Author Report Posted May 16, 2011 Och, what an idiot am I. In the process of playing with the sliding latches to remove the rust and discover how they locked, it became apparent that the tangs hit each other. ??? But that was the way I bought it yesterday! Now I have just discovered that there are inserts in the uprights to receive the tangs. Duh...
Bugyotsuji Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Posted May 18, 2011 I have been looking at typical Nobento on the web. This seems to be quite different. I may have been a little hasty (not like me) in pronouncing the large box for sake... OK so here's the question. What was the large round hole in the lacquer box for? Simply an insert for a flask? Or was the box filled with water through that hole at the way station and then a bung or lid applied and tied around it, so that water could be poured out sparingly through the corner hole? Or was the corner hole used for pouring out spillage from whatever was in the box? Any thoughts? 1) There is no evidence (eg scratches, rubbing) that I can see, of a string having been passed around the box from any direction in order to tie down a lid. 2) There is no evidence inside on the floor of the liquids box of a round flask-like object having been placed there. Likewise the inner edge of the rim shows no sign of any hard object having fitted snugly into it. The lacquer looks pristine. Is it possible that this picnic frame was actually never used in earnest? Or.... was this possibly a lady's portable washstand and Ohaguro set?
IanB Posted May 18, 2011 Report Posted May 18, 2011 Piers, How I envy your ability to acquire such fabulous items. Several things strike me. Firstly I agree it just doesn't look refined enough for a normal bento outfit. I also agree that the fact it is lacquered inside and out suggests liquids. I note also that the top 'tray' could be slid in from the side when hanging from its pole and that there does not seem room to have been a cover over it. My initial thought was that the big hole might have held a kind of copper dish for charcoal which would heat the water or whatever in the box but that would damage the underside of the tray. An alternative would be a covered ceramic dish containing soup or possibly sake, with the box filled with hot water to keep it hot. My guess is that it is a 'works canteen' for the lower ranks. The larger drawer containing boiled rice. The smaller one hashi, cups and dishes whilst the two top lidded boxes held pickles etc. That would leave the heated box for soup / sake. Ian Bottomley
Bugyotsuji Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Posted May 18, 2011 Ian, use of the word 'fabulous' has me eating out of your hand, but to tell the truth I think the dealer was having trouble selling it. It seems that few people collect things like this here now; a little rust and some cracking in the woodwork and it is doomed for the dump. I didn't dare take it home for fear the wife sees it, "we don't need any more clutter" (typical thinking of 99.9% of the population) so it now sits proudly (to me alone?) in my office where instead of doing office work I have been gently cleaning it up. I am really glad that you can see something in it. There was an old Professor here, a Gakugei-in who sadly passed away a couple of years ago. He had the best collection of Meiji Biidoro glass in Japan, among other wonderful things in his house. I used to watch this thin old man at antiques markets leafing through old books and unrolling scrolls, and I felt that he was somehow 'rescuing' little bits of history from some impending final disposal. He had an eye for things that no-one else seemed to possess, and many of his purchases turned out to be very valuable indeed. Thank you for your explanation which seems to be eminently sensible and sits well with what's there. I suspect there may once have been a flat lid to lock down the top tray, or it would have filled with rainwater. There may also have been a larger tomobako that this whole No-bento might have slotted into. Maybe one day at an antiques fair I will spot a square section pole to fit nicely through those carrying handles.
IanB Posted May 18, 2011 Report Posted May 18, 2011 Piers, I too have had wonderful times picking up 'rubbish' in the flea-markets of Tokyo and Kyoto. You are right, so much is regarded as junk that they just don't rate. I've had tsuka covers and saya covers for peanuts - items that just didn't seem to have been brought back in Victorian times and hardly ever occur in the UK. I have two treasures I acquired at the sort of price level you dream about. The first is a tiny boxwood skull, very stylized yet full of character that I paid the equivalent of about 20p for. It has a tiny carved loop on top as if hung on a Buddhist rosary. The other is a short brass rule done in sun and bu, no numbers on it just punched dots - again I got it for pennies but what a delightful reminder of the past. Ian
estcrh Posted May 18, 2011 Report Posted May 18, 2011 It seems that few people collect things like this here now; a little rust and some cracking in the woodwork and it is doomed for the dump. I didn't dare take it home for fear the wife sees it, "we don't need any more clutter" (typical thinking of 99.9% of the population) so it now sits proudly (to me alone?) in my office where instead of doing office work I have been gently cleaning it up. I am really glad that you can see something in it. Piers, I love seeing your "clutter", I see items being sold with no real monetary value but the same item commonly appears in old photos and or prints, however try see a real one to learn how they were made and looked etc, not very easy many times. Here is one such item, tenbin poles for carrying baskets and buckets were used to transport many things in Japan but try to find a picture of one close up. 1
Bugyotsuji Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Posted May 19, 2011 My goodness, Eric. That is redolent with hundreds of years of everyday life. You can even sense the mood of the person and the surroundiung culture in which it would have been used. Is that your room there? 1
estcrh Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 My goodness, Eric. That is redolent with hundreds of years of everyday life. You can even sense the mood of the person and the surroundiung culture in which it would have been used. Is that your room there? Piers, yes that "was" my room. It now has a life of its own. Right now it is a repository for broken hitsu
estcrh Posted May 19, 2011 Report Posted May 19, 2011 Another formally common item that I can not find a name for, a type of back pack used for carrying cargo, I have seen men carrying huge amounts of items on one of these.
Bugyotsuji Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Posted May 19, 2011 Watching the footage of the earthquake and tsunami I have been surprised to see how many of such articles are still used by the old people in that area, Eric.
estcrh Posted May 20, 2011 Report Posted May 20, 2011 Watching the footage of the earthquake and tsunami I have been surprised to see how many of such articles are still used by the old people in that area, Eric. Piers, here in the US we do not get any news on how things are going in Japan. I think the powers that be have decided for whatever reason that we do not need to be thinking about the earthquake (or is it the radiation?). I sometimes forget that Japan still has its rural areas especially when most images you see are of big cities. Here is a good picture of one of those back pack things, I have seen them called "shoi kago'' but I have also seen plain baskets with a back strap called that so I am not sure if thats the correct term.
Bugyotsuji Posted May 20, 2011 Author Report Posted May 20, 2011 Three reactors have melted down. They and their spent fuel rod pools are causing endless problems for the struggling workers, on top of which the rains and then the unbearable heat and the typhoons are approaching. Eric, the word you have used is country slang, shyoi, which probably comes from standard Japanese verb Se-ou or 'to carry on the back', = Se-oi kago, which are still on sale! http://www.google.co.jp/search?q=%E8%83 ... 24&bih=579
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