This Week's Edo Period Corner

[Bugyotsuji]

Brian, it's hard to shake you off the scent! It cost me 1,000 JPY and so I felt free to do whatever I wanted with it. A brush down with various brushes and a few taps and knocks cleared out much of the rough loose stuff. I covered all the rusty iron spots with a matt black quick-drying non-oil paint, and then went over the whole thing again with it. As I was wiping the inside I noticed faint traces of the original red interior inside the chin. With a first coating of 'adzuki' 小豆　coloured 'Cashew' it started to look a lot better, so I mixed that with こげ茶　Kogecha, another traditional colour of Japanese lacquer-type cashew paint. This went on the remainder of the interior lacquer, and some areas that looked like they would benefit from extra protection. A few hours drying outside in the shade with plenty of wind, and it was hard as a nut.

[Bugyotsuji]

Step 2, step 3, and then apply cord.

[Bugyotsuji]

So what? I hear you say? Well, it can go on the armour stand and complete the set. Decorative effect: Batsugun!

 

On Saturday I had just visited a Menpo collector and he must have had 100 hanging on one wall alone. At a low average of 3,000 USD each, you can work out what he paid for them, and a couple were considered the best examples anywhere in the world. So my brain was full of unattainable Menpo and the very next morning there is was, in all its tempting ghastliness. For 12 dollars US... a real one, with real age to it, and genuine holes that still work for the string, and the cheek hooks solid, and a viable sweat hole in the chin plugged with a little wooden bung, and I learned so much without being afraid! Yippppeeee...........

[estcrh]

Piers, I was afraid it might come to this...first the hand gonne and now this, your not going to start taking in any stray rusted orphan I hope? Then again you might have found a new calling in restoration. I have never heard the term bajo-hai used for those dipper cups, bashaku is what I have seen them called, is that wrong?

[watsonmil]

Dear Piers,

Tell me, ... are your headaches getting worse, ... any double vision, ... have you been getting adequate rest ???

... Ron Watson

[Bugyotsuji]

Ron, when I fit this on, my headache seems to pale in comparison.

 

No Eric, I have heard that there are two terms, Bashaku and Bajo-hai. I am never sure which one is correct for which situation, or whether one is better than the other, and I always hesitate in conversation as I try to remember at least one of these two terms I have heard.

[estcrh]

Piers, here is what you need to finish off that menpo, a kusari yodare-kake or chain armor throat guard. About those dippers, I have heard the larger ones being called horse dippers, maybe the size has something to do with what name is used.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Haha Eric. Many thanks. I was thinking more along the lines of a mini nodowa.

 

I have been trying to pin down the wording since you asked but have not managed to narrow it down or find the correct answer yet. Bajo-hai seems to be a goblet, and not at all what I was thinking. Bajo-no-hai 馬上の杯 is the stirrup cup or farewell drink.

 

They are a type of Hishaku 柄杓 but were they really designed for use on horseback? Hishaku are used for tea ceremony, although in bamboo and not lacquer. The word covers those ladles/dippers that people use to wash/clean their hands at the entrance to shrines and temples. I cannot find any examples or photos of the word you used, Bashaku, although it makes eminent sense. They were also used as Mae-date for helmets. Will post a pic of the ones I have when I get some time this evening. You can see one on the previous page... before I 'restored' it!!!

 

Can anyone help?

 

PS I am starting to find hits with the words Mabishaku and Umabishaku... some sources say they are for the rider to give water to the horse with, (although the rider might have fallen off the horse doing so), others that the riders leaned off the horse to scoop spring water and drank from them. (We must remember that J horses were smaller back then.)

[estcrh]

Piers, it would be nice to know the correct term. Here is an example of the large dipper that I have seen being called a horse dipper.

[Bugyotsuji]

Very nice examples, Eric. I see what you mean about size. Thanks.

[estcrh]

Even another term. BAJO HISHAKU

 

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/5 ... haku-ladle

[IanB]

According to Sasama's 'Nihon no Kassen Bugu Jiten' the correct term is BA BISHIYAKU. Whilst they are supposed to be watering horses, most are far too small and far too highly decorated. They seem to have been worn stuck into the belt at the back by grooms as a kind of badge of their job. Others seem to have worn a spare bridle around their necks, or a spare set of reins.

Ian Bottomley

[Bugyotsuji]

Very interesting, Ian. Yes, such decoration would be wasted on an undiscerning horse. I have seen

pictures of them stuck into belts, but as a badge of rank! That fits in with what I was reading on

various J sites this afternoon.

 

Sasama's "Ba-bishyaku" is very close to Ma-bishaku and Uma-bishaku, all three different ways of reading the same

Kanji 馬柄杓。The term must be correct, but the reading different according to time and place and

maybe dialect.

 

Eric, do you know how much that one sold for? Here are mine.

[estcrh]

Piers and Ian, there is probably a correct term there some were but I can see were the term bashaku came from. I am seeing shaku as meaning dipper or ladle and certain terms that start with ba as being horse related such as ba-ginu as horse blanket and batei as a horse hoof so it would not have been hard for someone looking for a term to come up with ba-shaku or bashaku as horse dipper or ladle..except that term seems to have already been used for stable or someone who handles horses. At least if someone was reading a dictionary of terms such as the one I am posting a link to.

 

Piers, the large dipper was not very expensive as I remember, I will have to look it up, Im sure under $100 at the time, it came from the revered Mr Daimyou who as I remember uses the term bashaku to describe these when they come up for sale.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=v8M9AA ... e&q&f=true

[Bugyotsuji]

Eric, Shaku means a cup.

 

Hi+shaku means literally a cup, with a handle/pole. (Dipper or ladle)

 

Hi is the same word 柄 used for the sword hilt Tsuka in Tsuka-maki, the -zuka in

Kozuka and the 'e' meaning the haft of a spear. 'Hi' is how it is traditionally pronounced when it is with

a Shaku and it changes to 'bi' when it is the second syllable after something else like 馬　horse. Thus

you get Hishaku, or Horse-bishaku. Horse as you know can be Uma, ma, or ba, depending on various things,

not least of which is ease of pronunciation in a context. Common usage might not have been 'common'

throughout Japan prior to Edo.

 

'Mabishaku' is given in the Kojien 広辞林　but I am sure that people used the term Bashaku as you suggest.

This is short, and would generally avoid all the other longer possibilities.

 

The only problem with the word Bashaku is that in common parlance it had a different meaning, 馬借　bashaku,

to rent out a horse for money, or the person who makes a livelihood by such means.

 

PS Be careful with Daimyo. He operates just down the road from here. You need to pick and choose with caution

as he sells anything that comes along, and he is not very strict with his definitions.

[John A Stuart]

柄杓 Hishaku is the term used for the ladle used in chanoyu. I have a couple of different sizes and they are used depending on purpose, moving the water from the kama to chawan or the misuzashi to the kama, even for washing before the ceremony just as is seen outside some temples prior to entering for purification. These are simply made with no lacquer or decoration, like the one's Piers showed. John

[estcrh]

John, all the uses of the term Hishaku I see seem to refer to tea related use. The plain ones like you mentioned are pictured not the lacquered ones.

[Justin Grant]

This one is listed as a 馬杓 Basyaku

 

I have no idea if it applies to the topic at hand, just saw it today when browsing and remembered this thread.

 

Justin

[IanB]

Justin, Yup. Sy is used as a convention for shi so the term is Ba shiaku. Having a kamon on it suggests this one was worn by a groom as an insignia.

Ian Bottomley

[estcrh]

Umabishaku is described here for scooping up water to wash the horse. Topsy-turvy 1585 By Robin D. Gill, Luís Froís

 

I am only getting a slight amount of information and or pictures with most of these names and some of them bring up no information or pictures.

 

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=P6vMfi ... AKU&f=true

[Bugyotsuji]

Lots of interesting reading in that link, Eric. Many thanks.

 

Your long ladle/dipper may be just that.

 

If they were plain originally, Ian's idea that the decorated ones were symbolic makes good sense.

The different competing terms and lack of definitive text anywhere also suggests to me regional

differences in language.

 

I still have not found this term 'Bashaku' that antique dealers use to mean a horse dipper for either

rider, groom or horse in any formal or trusted dictionary, including my fallback dictionary of

old Japanese words, Iwanami's Kogo Jiten 古語辞典

 

Mabishaku is the only word listed here, and the definition is 馬に水を飲ませるのに用いる柄杓。

= A (type of) hishaku (hisyaku) which is used for giving drinking water to a horse.

(But then for a thirsty horse you would imagine it to be a large version like yours, Eric.)

[estcrh]

Eric, PS Be careful with Daimyo. He operates just down the road from here. You need to pick and choose with caution

as he sells anything that comes along, and he is not very strict with his definitions.

 

Piers your right about that but unfortunately he does have from time to time some very hard to find items. He did change his descriptions recently I noticed, he now has some ages attached to the usual "little old" and "old"

 

Old About 50～100 years ago

A little old About 10～30 years ago

 

One thing he does have a knack for finding is unusual kikko, karuta and kusari items. Here is one example. A manju no wa or manchria depending on who's book you read. Daimyou has had over the years more of these auxiliary type armors then all the other dealers I know put together. They are quite hard to find especially in good condition.

 

[estcrh]

Piers, I found this under mabishaku but like you I did not find bashaku used as a horse ladle, I could not find Ians term either " Ba shiaku" but I do not doubt its also correct.

 

A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and ... - Page 420

 

George Cameron Stone - 1999 - 694 pages - Preview

Mabishaku. i. The bowl is a cocoanut shell and it and the handle are decorated with a gold lacquer vine. Length 26 inches. 2. ... MABISHAKU. A long-handled dipper used by the early Japanese to give water to their horses. ...

books.google.com - More editions

►

[Nobody]

Piers, I found this under mabishaku but like you I did not find bashaku used as a horse ladle, I could not find Ians term either " Ba shiaku" but I do not doubt its also correct.

Ref. http://www.samurai-gallary.com/z701.htm

[Bugyotsuji]

"Mabishaku" in Hikone Castle 「左から、轡（くつわ）・しおで・鞭・馬柄杓（まびしゃく）・障泥（あおり）」

 

http://4travel.jp/traveler/minikuma/pict/17081034/

[estcrh]

Piers, this is how the picture translated.

 

Photo comments Harness

 

From left, 轡 (ie shoes) a horse whip salt dipper (or Bishaku) 障泥 (aftermath)

[IanB]

All, Here is an image I should have posted earlier. It shows a groom wearing the dipper in his belt as an insignia of his position.

Ian

[estcrh]

Ian, thats a great picture, you can also see the horse bit and harness around his neck. I see that the groom has 2 swords showing that he is a samurai, I would have guessed that a groom would be of a lower class.

[Bugyotsuji]

Piers, this is how the picture translated.

 

Photo comments Harness

 

From left, 轡 (ie shoes) a horse whip salt dipper (or Bishaku) 障泥 (aftermath)

 

Apologies, Eric.

 

The museum description says: From Left,

 

Kutsuwa (Bridle bits), Shiode (saddle tie handles), Muchi (bullwhips), Mabishaku (horse dippers),

and Aori (horse cover/splashguard).

 

And yes, what an excellent picture, Ian. Even the Kutsuwa seem to be part of his dress.

Many thanks.

 

Happy New Year everyone.

[Bugyotsuji]

According to Sasama's 'Nihon no Kassen Bugu Jiten' the correct term is BA BISHIYAKU. Whilst they are supposed to be watering horses, most are far too small and far too highly decorated. They seem to have been worn stuck into the belt at the back by grooms as a kind of badge of their job. Others seem to have worn a spare bridle around their necks, or a spare set of reins.

Ian Bottomley

 

To summarize, I am sensing that the term 'Bashaku' used by many Japanese and Western dealers of Japanese antiques is wrong. I cannot find any examples of this word with these Kanji and this meaning in any Japanese dictionary.

 

The correct usage must be either what Sasama Sensei says above, Ba-bishiyaku, Ba-bishaku, Ba-bishyaku, Ba-bisaku or the same with Ma- or Uma- instead of Ba, or something very close. Remember that these are mostly semi-incorrect attempts to reproduce the Japanese sounds, so the Romanization will never be perfect. The word for horse comes from an ancient sound that comes from North Korea and the Mongolian steppes, and is formed with the lips like mma or umba. Put that sound before Hishaku and, following Japanese language conventions, the H changes to B. Thus we end up with Ma-bishaku, Ba-bishaku or Uma-bishaku.

 

In the various Japanese dictionaries that I have consulted, both printed and on the internet, the usage Ma-bishaku is by far the most prevalent.

 

I would be happy if the world could standardize this now to Mabishaku ( or Babishaku). = Horse-handle-cup.

 

NB The expression of the sound in English of 柄杓 hishaku/bishaku can be bishyaku or bishiyaku because they are differing attempts to reach the same Japanese sound. *We must be careful with Sasama sensei's bishiyaku, however, as that can sound like four syllables to an English speaker, whereas in Japanese there are only three, hi/bi + sha + ku.