watsonmil Posted May 15, 2010 Report Posted May 15, 2010 Ian, Gives a whole lot more meaning to : " Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition ". I guess that quote is a little too late in history to be attributable however. Kind regards, ... Ron
Bugyotsuji Posted May 16, 2010 Author Report Posted May 16, 2010 Even with improved accuracy this Wiki answers article suggests that it took 3,000 bullets to wound one enemy combatant during the Vietnam War. As is "normal", figures will vary from year to year, and especially from source to source. But more often than not, the figures given closest to the date of occurrence appear to be the most accurate. During the early 1970's the figure of 3,000 rounds of small arms fire, per enemy casualty, was given. This had a profound effect on individual rifleman tactics. Shortly after these figures were accepted by the US Army, the M-16 rifle's full automatic switch was modified for short bursts. Until there is another change made, Vietnam will be the FIRST and LAST time in history in which the individual rifleman had "Rock an Roll" (full automatic capability). http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_ ... ietnam_war
estcrh Posted May 16, 2010 Report Posted May 16, 2010 Even with improved accuracy this Wiki answers article suggests that it took 3,000 bullets to wound one enemy combatant during the Vietnam War. As is "normal", figures will vary from year to year, and especially from source to source. But more often than not, the figures given closest to the date of occurrence appear to be the most accurate. During the early 1970's the figure of 3,000 rounds of small arms fire, per enemy casualty, was given. This had a profound effect on individual rifleman tactics. Shortly after these figures were accepted by the US Army, the M-16 rifle's full automatic switch was modified for short bursts. Until there is another change made, Vietnam will be the FIRST and LAST time in history in which the individual rifleman had "Rock an Roll" (full automatic capability). http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_ ... ietnam_war The ammunition manufacturers were in heaven!!!! Those were the days.
Bugyotsuji Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Posted May 31, 2010 Here is a bit of a puzzle. I noticed these at a friend's house and commented on how they had a good feeling to them. Some weeks later, he gave them to me. They appear to be Gyoyo and made of Uchidashi iron, but has anyone seen anything like them? You may notice a line of small rivets down one side of one of them. Why? More photos supplied if requested.
watsonmil Posted May 31, 2010 Report Posted May 31, 2010 Dear Piers, They remind me of Temple Protectors ( as in head ) for a lower class armoured foot soldier. The rivets look to be an old repair. Just a quess ..... Ron Watson
IanB Posted May 31, 2010 Report Posted May 31, 2010 Piers, My first thought was to agree with you that they are gyoyo, but I think that is what they ended up as. That with the rivets could have been destined as a fukigayeshi, or as Ron suggests,cheekpieces for a hitai ate. The bumps might be a kamon or, fact that there is a hole in the base for a chin tie might substantiates the latter idea. But, no rivets or hole in the base in the other. The rivets cannot be a repair since they do not now attach anything. Good one Ian Bottomley
Bugyotsuji Posted June 1, 2010 Author Report Posted June 1, 2010 Hmmm... yes, that makes sense, Ron & Ian. I can now see a narrow area down the inside lower edges where a Fukukaeshi or cheekpieces might at one time have been fixed/wedged to a Kabuto or Menpo. One could have come loose and the rivets could then be a later repair. I am tempted to use these as Gyoyo with my armour/armor anyway, but many thanks for the considered feedback which I genuinely value! :D
IanB Posted June 1, 2010 Report Posted June 1, 2010 Piers, Yes, definitely fukigayeshi. If you look at the inside edge of each there is no turned rim on the lower portion. That part would originally have been the right-angled bend where the fukigayeshi turns out from the top lame of the shikoro. On the inside shot you can just make out the broken edge. As you say, one has been bust off in the past and repaired by being riveted back by means of a small angled patch. So, the three dots are a kamon. When armours were being sold off in the early Meiji period, it was common to either deface the kamon or when that couldn't be done, snap off the fukigayeshi because of the shame of having to sell one's armour. I have a very nice armour with a gold lacquered momonari kabuto which has been treated this way. Interestingly, just on Friday I saw a catalogue from an Australian sale in which was its twin. Even better the Australian armour is signed and dated so I now know who made mine. Ian B
Iekatsu Posted June 2, 2010 Report Posted June 2, 2010 Sorry to interrupt, but which Australian sale are you speaking of Mr Bottomley?
IanB Posted June 2, 2010 Report Posted June 2, 2010 Hitori San, Ha, there you have me. I saw the catalogue for only a few moments and then had to dash off to do something else. I have asked for a photocopy of the armour like mine for my records. All I can say is that it was a big fine-art sale with just four Japanese armours in and a lot of paintings, furniture and things like that. One armour was a modern reproduction, one had two different sode and the other was in multicolour lacing that I thing included white and orange. The armour like mine is laced in pale blue and has an okegawa-do and momonari helmet. I will not be going into work again until the 9th June but will give full details when I get it. Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted June 4, 2010 Author Report Posted June 4, 2010 Piers, Yes, definitely fukigayeshi. If you look at the inside edge of each there is no turned rim on the lower portion. That part would originally have been the right-angled bend where the fukigayeshi turns out from the top lame of the shikoro. On the inside shot you can just make out the broken edge. As you say, one has been bust off in the past and repaired by being riveted back by means of a small angled patch. So, the three dots are a kamon. When armours were being sold off in the early Meiji period, it was common to either deface the kamon or when that couldn't be done, snap off the fukigayeshi because of the shame of having to sell one's armour. Ian B Really interesting Ian. Since then I have found that the Mon is probably of Matsuura of Hirado, one of the most powerful Kyushu lords. Originally representing a group of three stars in Orion it was known in China as the three warriors or three generals. Genji and Oe used it in Japan and it was inherited by Matsuura.
IanB Posted June 4, 2010 Report Posted June 4, 2010 Mr Sinclair, I promised to tell you the details of the auction in Australia. It is the Owston Collection being sold by Bonhams on Friday 25th and Saturday 26th June 2010. It would appear to be being held in the Overseas Passenger Terminal in Sidney. The armour by the same maker as mine is a Minamoto Yoshikazu working around 1850. Mine differs slightly in having a standard Nara mask and in having the momonari helmet lacquered gold rather than black. The armours in the sale (some modern) are lots 767,768,769,770,862,863,864,865,931,932,933 1nd 934. Ian Bottomley
Stephen Posted June 4, 2010 Report Posted June 4, 2010 http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.s ... blicSite.r
Iekatsu Posted June 6, 2010 Report Posted June 6, 2010 Thank you very much Mr Bottomley, I will have to make my way to the sale. The armour by Nakahachiman Yoshikazu you mentioned is very interesting, I have a Nodowa by Nakahachiman Takeyasu (1838). If it is not to much trouble I would love to see an image of the armour in your collection. http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.s ... 1139-2.jpg
IanB Posted June 6, 2010 Report Posted June 6, 2010 Mr. Sinclair, My scanner / printer isn't working at the moment but there is a picture of my armour in my book 'The Arms and Armour of the Samurai' on page 111. I did not get any sode with my armour, and of course the kote and haidate are different but that would be reasonable - many armourers only making the major elements and the using minor parts bought in from specialists. Mine is definitely a slightly cheaper assembly judging by the kote, which are not very high quality, and sewn onto plain dark blue hemp. I have subsequently found a pair of sugake laced sode for my armour. They were gold lacquered and rather distressed and needed relacing so I have done them in pale blue to match my armour. I found it very difficult to imitate the faded blue of the armour but the end result looks reasonably well. Ian
IanB Posted June 6, 2010 Report Posted June 6, 2010 Mr. Sinclair, It has just occurred to me that if you do view the sale in Sidney, could you have a look inside the do by Takeyasu? My armour has the interior finished in bright red leather glued directly to the inside of the plates rather than just being fastened around the edges as was more usual. It would also be interesting to see if Takeyasu has used ko sakura gawa on the edge of the helmet lining and on the haidate that is stenciled with a very dull blue/green background and with larger flowers than normal. The jury is still out on just how the armour market was organised. Obviously top names ran extensive workshops that could, and did, create the whole of an armour. It is the lower end of the trade that is less well understood. We know that armourers could 'buy in' minor elements such as masks and kote from specialist suppliers. It also seems clear that there was a considerable trade in re-cycled elements that were reconditioned and incorporated into new armours. Did armourers like Takeyasu make the major portions like do and helmets and then sell them to others who lacquered and finished them? If the Australian one is like mine it would suggest that they were finished in his own workshop. This could be an interesting opportunity to learn more. Ian
Iekatsu Posted June 7, 2010 Report Posted June 7, 2010 Mr Bottomley, I see your armour in 'Arms and Armour of the Samurai" and agree that they are very similar and likely of the same workshop, the Yokohagi Okegawa Dou in particular. I agree that Nakahachiman Yoshikazu likely finished the armours in his own workshop, being a fief employed armourer he likely had the resources to do so. To further the point there exists an armour from the possessions of Hachisuka Narihiro by Nakahachiman Yoshikazu in which the Menpo, Nodowa, Kote and Suneate are all signed. I also have reason to believe that Nakahachiman Takeyasu worked in the same workshop. Below is an image of the back of the Nodowa in my possession, which seems to feature the Sakura gawa you mentioned above. I will be sure to look for the mentioned features and take some photos of the armour for you if I make it to the viewing.
IanB Posted June 7, 2010 Report Posted June 7, 2010 Mr. Sinclair, Yes, that seems to be leather from the same source. Until now I have never been able to pin down anything about my armour since it is completely unsigned and the fukigayeshi of the helmet have been broken off. What is clear however is that despite being a relatively simple okegawa do, the quality is excellent - being moderately heavy, suggesting good thick plates, and with the lacquering like Rolls Royce paintwork. Obviously a simple no-frills armour for a middle - ranking bushi, but a thoroughly workman like product. Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted June 13, 2010 Author Report Posted June 13, 2010 It never fails to amaze me when people can put things together that have been apart at different ends of the world for hundreds of years, or work out that they were made by the same person/workshop.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Posted June 14, 2010 Well, it was obvious this was going to happen. The weather forecast had been saying for some time that the rainy season would start on Sunday the 13th. We had a big display scheduled for that day, the cherry on the cake of the Toki-no-week festival in Akashi, but I did not want to get my armor/armour and guns soaked. No information came, so I packed everything on Saturday and left the six bags and boxes in the hall ready to roll. Luckily I have a set of 'fake' repro Do, Sode, and Sune-ate as back-up and I found a light khaki Monpe that I could wear underneath at a pinch. Didn't want to get the good Hitatare wet... Left the house at 4 am. We met centrally and packed the van to the ceiling and set off, rain the whole way. (Two years ago we had managed a display at Amako in pouring rain with almost no misfires, proving that if you are careful the Tanegashima can be used in rain for a while, despite the body being soaked to the skin. This was in the back of everyone's mind.) The organizers kept arriving and checking whether we were really going to do this. I could see most of our members were ostensibly up for the parade and the first 10:30 display despite the rain. Sweat was coursing down my face even before I started to get changed. Inwardly I was cursing but once more I had to fall in line with the group plan. I hid my tachi koshirae in my bag, along with the Hayago neckband and my cord-wound Hora-gai and went out to stand in line. Many of them were wearing first-line armour/armor. Some members asked me what had happened to my Tachi, and I simply replied that I didn't want to get it wet.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Posted June 14, 2010 The gong at the front of the line was struck and everyone who had them started blowing their Triton Horagai. Where's yours? someone inevitably asked. Don't want to get the colored cords wet, I replied lamely. The 'rear-car' arrived to carry the O-zutsu big gun boxes to the field. Is there a plastic sheet to cover them, I asked, worried about my black lacquer 20 Monme in its not-waterproof box, even if no-one else was particularly bothered. People looked flustered and bewildered. Sheet? Huh? Luckily one of the members was also worried about his gun and sent his wife to get a plastic tarp from their car. We did the display in the rain. There were some misfires. We got a standing ovation on the way back from the 100-odd 'crowd' who were mostly festival staff, in thanks for putting this on in a spirit of cooperation with the festival, and with no thought for our own comfort. Well, that's what I think they were clapping for....
Bugyotsuji Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Posted June 14, 2010 Back to the changing rooms and the rain was gradually becoming not sporadic but constant. Reload, and get your helmets on! came the order. My headscarf and helmet uki-bari were still soaked with sweat as I put them back on for the 12 o'clock midday display, trying at the same time to load three guns in a mass of luggage and boxes and armoured bodies. There is a changing room, but not big enough, so most of us are struggling in the narrow corridor. Hurry, it's eleven thirty already, came the insistent voice. Cursing loudly and freely now. Total confusion. Are we really going out in this? I think incredulously. Finally came what I had been hoping for. Chushi, they say. It's been cancelled. Now we have to wash the gunpowder out, pull all the wet gear off and get some dry clothes on, well, for those that thought this far! hahaha :lol: What I really wanted to say today in recollection, is that if your Japanese Katchu armor/armour or weapons smell moldy, rusty, salty and sweaty, it's probably because no-one was ever able to take individual care of the stuff, leaving it thus exposed to the vagaries of the orders of the particular group leader, and above them the overall planners of the operation. (Mine is spread out in the hall and tearoom today, sprayed with Fabreeze and with luck gradually drying out.)
watsonmil Posted June 14, 2010 Report Posted June 14, 2010 Dear Piers, You triggered some memories of shooting at the Canadian National Matches at the Connaught Ranges just outside Ottawa here in Canada. We were scheduled to shoot the prone matches, and it was pouring rain. Since there were at least 90 of us shooting in three relays ( about 30 to a relay ), .... we had no choice. Either you shoot, or forfeit your entry, .... weather be damned. Laying in 2 - 3 inches of water with rain pouring down is not ideal for serious competitive shooting, ... but you do it ! As soon as we finished, .. the next 30 or so took our places and we of the first relay took our gear back to our tents to dry out ( a couple of hundred yards from the line ). The second group finished, and like we of the first line withdrew to shelter. The third relay had gotten about half finished when it began to hail instead of just rain ( hail is bloody balls of ice ) for those who don't know. The hail was about the size of marbles, ... and the poor buggers still shooting couldn't take the beating. The ground between the firing line and the shelter of our army tents looked like a battlefield strewn with rifles, spotting scopes, and other gear. The guys caught out there were covered in nasty red welts from head to toe. It was ruled that since they left their firing positions ... they forfeited the match. It was just the way things were. Those of us who had finished our relay were not nearly so glum in reading our scores. At least we were still in the competition, ... and we were not in physical pain. We, ... everyone of the first and second relay to the man ... petitioned the range committee to allow the third relay to re-shoot the match. We prevailed, ... and relay three was allowed to re-shoot. Although they got the advantage of shooting in fair weather, ... and posted better scores, .... none of us felt bitter about losing in this a world class competition. One of the reasons I have always been proud of being part of the most " gentlemanly " of sports. .......... Ron Watson
Bugyotsuji Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Posted June 14, 2010 A lovely story, Ron. Many thanks. PS The inside of the gun case.
Bugyotsuji Posted June 19, 2010 Author Report Posted June 19, 2010 NBTHK exhibition today. Six large lockable glass display cases. We did a joint effort with some brilliant swords, and in the other half of the room a large display of guns and armour and accoutrements. Some of the guests were astonished at the quality and quantity of hardware on display. Four sets of armour were for the public to try on and when a large group of trainees from China stopped and signalled interest, the blokes were eager to get them dressed, photographed and undressed again. I got roped into this job too... 9:00 am to 5:00 pm standing and explaining; my legs are now shot. Can i really do this again tomorrow? (Better still, can I get up at 6 am tomorrow, Sunday, and drive to the antiques fair 50 mins from here and back without anyone noticing my tardiness?) :lol:
Bugyotsuji Posted June 21, 2010 Author Report Posted June 21, 2010 The 2nd day was very eventful. I woke up woozy, skipped the antiques show in the morning and went straight to the venue to help out and even earn some Brownie points. I was happy that the sword people and the gun people could share a space like this, until I later heard some of the stuff going on behind the scenes. To err is human, indeed... Here is a little corner with some goodies on display.
watsonmil Posted June 21, 2010 Report Posted June 21, 2010 Dear Piers, Putting on a display like that is not only time consuming, ... but I can only imagine the discomfort your voice box must be suffering. I would hope that not only the folks you got to explain the "obvious" uses to, ... but ask anyway as their way of appreciating your efforts, .... but also members of the NMB will realize the items they are viewing will only rarely be seen in some of the best of museums. I am sure you will agree with me when I say that for a collector and enthusiast there is no greater reward than seeing people's faces light up when viewing, ... and learning. . PS> Even the sword is sorta OK to look at :D . ... Ron Watson
Bugyotsuji Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Posted June 22, 2010 Yes, Ron, I found myself watching their faces intently for clues on whether they needed help. Many suddenly lost interest and wandered off, but others looked around perplexed and were glad to see I was eager to be of service. It's so hard to get the tone and the amount of info right for each person, but wonderful to see fascination dawning in their eyes. Some of the questions were totally surprising, like one gent who pointed at the 80 Monme big gun and asked me: "Kore wa nan-ryo desuka?" (How many Ryo is this?) Well, people often ask how heavy it is, or whether they come up on the market, and if so how much it would cost to buy one... so as I kind of doubted my own ears I fudged an answer for him, but he asked exactly the same question again as if it was the most natural thing in the world. Then it dawned on me that he was asking how much it would have cost, at some unspecified time in the distant past, for a castle to have to buy one of these for their armoury, if they were paying in old money such as the Ryo gold oval coins. Our leader laughed at me later when I told him that I had stuttered. You should have made up a figure, of say 80 Ryo, he said! Or you should have quoted what the Lord Tokitaka paid for the first Tanegashima in 1542... equivalent to about 200 million of today's Japanese Yen! hahahaha.....
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