Bugyotsuji Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Posted July 11, 2009 Sorting through boxes and boxes of tsuba, fuchi, kashira, menuki etc. today in a warehouse and discovered this little wakizashi tsuba. 6.5 x 6.9 cm. 0.4 at the seppa dai, 0.35 @ mimi. Can you see what is special about it. (Well, special to me anyway. No-one else seemed to notice... :lol: )
Bugyotsuji Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Posted July 11, 2009 There were three of these, but on my way home with my treasures, a friend took one off me, ...so now there are two. One is Edo, the other is probably WWII. Both seem in good nick, soft leather.
Brian Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 Piers, Interested in hearing more about this: "Sorting through boxes and boxes of tsuba, fuchi, kashira, menuki etc. today in a warehouse" You have access to warehouses of stuff?? When can I come over? Brian
raaay Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 Piers it looks like the tsuba has a cross at the top and bottom of the sepa dai and the hitsu ana look like the profile of a priests hat ray
IanB Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 Piers, Same kamon - what a coincidence. Nice tsuka covers, the brown leather ones are WWII I think. I have a very odd one for a katana that has a tubular bit for the tsuka and then a conical part for the tsuba. Interestingly it leaves the kashira exposed. Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Posted July 12, 2009 Brian, I suspected you might pick up on that! hehehehe So, when are you coming over then? Ian, yes, it is and I can hardly believe it. The under Kote sleeves box originally contained a Tsuba, according to the brushwork on the lid, but that was missing. Now I have put this tsuba into the box in a little black bag, and all is almost right with the world again. :| I wonder if anything has been published on this Mon? I now have three pieces of evidence and some fragmentary written material. A recon trip to Awa might be a possible interim plan. Ray, you are right about the two crosses, and the hitsu ana designs do indeed look suspiciously like a priest's hat. Perhaps we can say that this tsuba is not an example of Kakuri Kurisutan/Kurishitan, but from an earlier age when there was no need to hide anything.
Bugyotsuji Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Posted July 12, 2009 Piers, I have a very odd one for a katana that has a tubular bit for the tsuka and then a conical part for the tsuba. Interestingly it leaves the kashira exposed. Ian One of these perhaps? Green leather. Just found it today, but only recognized what it was from your description last night! :lol: I told him what you said, and the dealer suggested that there was an inner straight sleeve for the Tsuka, then this was pulled on top of that... that is he didn't think that the Kashira would actually stick out. So, I think the jury may be still out on that.
IanB Posted July 12, 2009 Report Posted July 12, 2009 Piers, Yup, like that. Mine has a kamon in red lacquer on it, but is much narrower in the parallel part. I doubt if there would have been room for an inner-tube. I will dig it out and post a picture. Ian
IanB Posted July 12, 2009 Report Posted July 12, 2009 As promised, here are a couple of shots of my hilt cover both on and off a rather long tsuka. It does fit but only just. I seriously doubt it would be possible to get anything like a separate sleeve under it. Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Posted July 13, 2009 You must be right. I went round to the friend's house on the way home and tried pulling this over the long straight one, and it was too tight. Maybe these were invented for rainy days when wearing uchi katana, as the Tsuka would have stuck upwards. Tachi tend to hang down, so a different kind of rain protection might have been in order.
pcfarrar Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 I have a tsuka cover with mon badge and it has a seperate cover to put over the kashira.
Bugyotsuji Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Posted July 13, 2009 I have a tsuka cover with mon badge and it has a seperate cover to put over the kashira. Don't believe you...
Bugyotsuji Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Posted July 16, 2009 No piccies, Peter? :D Two interesting things floated by this week. One is a rusted banded and riveted helmet, one end featuring what looks like the iron-bound prow of a ship. No-one here can decide if it is Japanese, Chinese, Viking, or what. The second object is a massive tray, black lacquer on wood. It is covered in two types of Kamon, which appear to be the Imperial Chrysanthemum and a type of Kiri called the Saga-kiri Mon. (Saga, with these Kanji, is an area of Kyoto.) It has been suggested that the tray was once used for carrying meals from the kitchens of a huge house or castle. Can anyone guess how much I paid for this tray at the Ako Antiques Fair yesterday? Photos of either supplied upon request.
IanB Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 Piers, Please supply an image of the helmet. It sounds like a shokaku tsuki hachi of the type worn with tanko. I remember seeing a couple, probably made in the 1920's or 30's, for use in 'historic pageants'. As for the tray, Are you sure it wasn't just the lid of a large box? Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Posted July 16, 2009 Ian, I'm going home in a minute, so I'll get the trusty camera out. I say a tray, because the lips (edges) point upwards and not downwards. Are you suggesting that the 'bottom' might actually be the top, and the Mon might be only on the inside of the 'lid'? (It's a large rectangular thing, BTW)? The helmet has four nail holes in the top, and was displayed when found nailed upside down on a wooden base apparently. Thanks for the feedback, and watch this space! Brian, I am going to put a few pics here, but once the comments are out, I will erase the pics completely or to a bare minimum. (Talking of beer, I just quaffed a can of Kirin beer with 99% Purine cut, plus added 'wine polyphenols'! ) Pics now deleted. See Google pages on next page of this thread for illustrations
Bugyotsuji Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Posted July 16, 2009 And a wee shot of the 'tray'. I had a look 'underneath', Ian, but it looks like the slidy bottom of a lacquer tray... The whole measures 92 cm by 55 cm. (I have placed a fairly large Tsuba, 8.6 cm x 8.4 cm) on the surface for size reference.) Again, will erase most ASAP for bandwidth. After some restoration, this is how it is now looking. See below:
Bugyotsuji Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Posted July 16, 2009 Come on, all you good folks out there! How much did this cost? (Brian is disqualified because he knows my Scottish nature.)
Stephen Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 id guess you got it free with buying something else...or a mear pence
IanB Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 Piers, Yes it is a shokaku tsuki hachi (battering -ram helmet) as I suspected. The originals were all dug out of burial mounds so the question is - is it real or a copy? My guess is the latter, judging by the state of the metal. I suspect the corroded holes at the back were to give it a bit of authenticity. The four holes on top were for a couple of prongs to which were tied pheasant feathers. I thing the tray is a lid off a very posh box, and quite an old one at that. I note what looks like the 7 - 9 - 7 kiri mon as well as the kiku mon. Are we looking here at the Toyotomi? On the armours of that period (circa 1600) the kamon are done in gold nashiji on the black lacquer with a gold line border and details added after. Annoyingly, I have deleted and image I had of such both these kamon lacquered side by side on the fukigayeshi of an armour of Hideyoshi's that is now in Paris. As for how much you paid - I prefer not to think about it. Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Posted July 16, 2009 It's quite late (2:10 am) so I may leave the pics up a little longer and sleep on them. Lid/tray cost. Stephen is the closest so far and flies in under the line. Ian's comment includes a suggestion of the same thing. Well done. The dealer asked apologetically for 1,000 yen, and I told him I would think about it... as I didn't want to carry it around the market. It was absolutely filthy. When I came back it was still there, and he apologized again for the weight. I showed it to a collector friend later and he said "Who has room for that in their house?" I imagined my wife complaining and had to agree with him. (She hasn't seen it yet.) Poor thing is embarrassingly large. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is a Kiri Mon, but it's called Saga-kiri Mon, and in Saga in Kyoto there is also the Saga Kiku, with the imperial 16 petals. There was an Emperor Saga, and a Saga Genji among other famous names. It cleaned up wonderfully, but unfortunately it's been pretty battered at some time in its life. Are we rescuing history here? A box lid? Interesting. As to the Shokaku-tsuki hachi, Ian, do you know if the sound Sho- is short or long? I wonder what the kanji are? Need to spend some more time looking it up. The chap who has lent it to me is going to float it in the dealer's auction this weekend, and he wanted to know what we thought of it. I asked if I could borrow it for a few days and ask around. He said fine. He's either playing me, or he really doesn't know. I know that he has links to the Chinese antiques market and to people who make 'fake' antiques, but he also digs up some amazing genuine finds too, so really anything is possible. Thanks for your thoughts, though, Ian.
IanB Posted July 16, 2009 Report Posted July 16, 2009 Piers, Being a computer illiterate (but having taught computing for 10 years starting in the days of punched cards) I have not mastered putting kanji on this site. So, I will fall back on Nelson's dictionary. The shokaku tsuki is written: Sho is char No. 1638 meaning 'brunt, opposition' kaku is char No 4301 meaning 'angle, corner, square' tsuki is char No 363. Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Posted July 17, 2009 Piers, Being a computer illiterate (but having taught computing for 10 years starting in the days of punched cards) I have not mastered putting kanji on this site. So, I will fall back on Nelson's dictionary. The shokaku tsuki is written:Sho is char No. 1638 meaning 'brunt, opposition' kaku is char No 4301 meaning 'angle, corner, square' tsuki is char No 363. Ian Thanks Ian. Japanese burial mounds, right? The design looks like it might be for warding off arrows. There appear to be traces of some form of pitch/lacquer coating. Under Shokaku-tsuki Kabuto I found a few pages on Google. They are in Japanese but most contain a nice little illustration of what you were saying. http://www.google.co.jp/search?q=%E8%A1 ... rt=10&sa=N
pcfarrar Posted July 17, 2009 Report Posted July 17, 2009 No piccies, Peter? :D Sorry forgot I'll post some pics later on. I assume the separate piece is to go on the kashira but maybe your supposed to stick it on the end of the saya.
IanB Posted July 17, 2009 Report Posted July 17, 2009 Piers, I think it more likely that the prolonged 'prow' on these helmets was designed to protect the face from cuts rather that arrows. Arrows do not have sufficient energy to pierce plate armour. If you look at the underside of these helmets, there is a separate plate that rests against the forehead, the 'prow' jutting quite a long way forward. They were originally fitted with a shikoro of plates, similar to those on later helmets, but laced together with internal leather thongs. Together with the do, and its long plate skirt, shoulder guards etc, it amountend to a very efficient armour for use on foot. Ian
Bugyotsuji Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Posted July 17, 2009 Peter, look forward to seeing the pics, and then perhaps someone may be able to help. Had a long chat with a friend in antiques today, Ian, about the lid/tray. He agreed with you and said it is definitely old, and probably a family heirloom; a Hiro-buta, 広蓋 which literally means a 'wide lid'. It shows evidence of relacquering, which suggests someone tried to take good care of it. Apparently it was placed on the floor outside the bathing quarters where garments (kimono) were laid into it; the lip kept all in order. He said you could not make one of these for even 100,000 yen today, and the Mon are partcularly expensive to order and have done, something like 10,000 JPY each. He agreed that, sad but true, no-one in Japan today would want to buy such a thing, and recommended that I take it to the West where it can have a new lease on life. Very interesting background to the Shokaku-tsuki Kabuto. Thanks for that. There is a picture of a modern reproduction in one of the links above. (The chap wants to sell it, but has no idea what to ask for it!)
Bugyotsuji Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Posted July 25, 2009 Here is a medal commemorating... what do you think? I had been looking at this medal for about six months, but the dealer was asking what I thought was far above my budget. It did seem like a nice object for this corner, even if a 'little' outside Edo, so I eventually made him an offer he couldn't refuse. About the size of an average Tsuba at 7 cm across, copper.
Nobody Posted July 25, 2009 Report Posted July 25, 2009 Here is a medal commemorating... what do you think? I know what it is, because I could read the writing on the medal. I will keep silent now.
Bugyotsuji Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Posted July 25, 2009 It doesn't matter now really, Koichi san, as I have added the close-ups. But thank you anyway. Actually I had a hard time getting the meaning of the vertical writing on the 'book'. It is either a famous quote from Admiral Togo Heihachiro, or it may be the title of a treatise that he wrote. An old professor finally helped me to understand the reading, and the meaning, well to some extent the meaning. I believe the Admiral only lived for another four years after this. The medal does not have its original box, unfortunately, and it looks as though it has been in a house fire. Many of my Japanese friends have told me that this kind of medal has little value in Japan today, but I really like it as a fascinating piece of undeniable history.
Nobody Posted July 25, 2009 Report Posted July 25, 2009 Piers, I have found several interesting sites. Ref. http://honke-kobe.open365.jp/Products.92.aspx http://blog.livedoor.jp/irootoko_jr/arc ... .html#more FYI; though it is not the same naval review. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMQTEHfzP7Q&hl=ja
Bugyotsuji Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Posted July 25, 2009 Wonderful links to the Naval Review there Koichi san. The first two I had already seen, but that video news clip is a stunning eye-opener. Do you know what the name of the main battleship on the medal, and on the postcard is, by the way? Oh, and the song...
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